Almost District Champion!

derbydentist

Council Champion
Pro Racer
Feb 27, 2017
222
76
28
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Well it was a roller coaster of emotions and I just now found the time to write about it. As some of you know I just found out about this district race about 2 weeks before the race. Since our area didn't have a district race I just followed the pack rules for our pack race. When I found this district race to race in I found out that we had a few things to change to our car to make it legal for this race.

Finally I got all the changes made after 2 straight days of not sleeping. It was the day before the race and I was expecting some parts in the mail to finish the car and hopefully just put things together and go to the race. I hadn't received the parts yet so I was searching frantically among my dads wheels and nails and my brothers old cars to see what parts would qualify for the race just in case the wheels and nails didn't show. I didn't really find any that would qualify but luckily (I thought) the wheels and nails arrived.

Me and Weston were so excited and we went to my dads to finish the car and I looked in the box when we got there and it was the wrong order!! The wheels were way to light to qualify. So I was back to the drawing board with the race the next day and no wheels to work with. I called my brother who said he had some I could use that met the council rules a couple years back that he swore would meet these rules too.

So I drove to his house late at night and picked them up. Got back to my dads and put the calipers on them.... nope... too small diameter! After a long time of searching through old parts I found some wheels that were at least trued and had some work on the double step and hubs but when I put the calipers on them some measurements met the rules and some were just below - depending on how/where I measured them.. we are talking like .001 too small with our digital calipers.

So I make an executive decision that these were the best wheels we got and hopefully they were not going to be extremely strict at the race. I stayed up all night again - prepped the wheels which obviously had to be rushed without letting the wax cure and the whole nine yards.

Finally got the car together and ran it down the tuning board - it sounded awful and could hear clicking - I suspected that my bores were out of round and were bigger than they should be - who knows they probably had been prepped 2 or 3 times already Ha! So I put it on the test track anyway cuz I was out of time. 1st run down -2.55 which is extremely slow on our track - that was a time I was getting before we discovered this forum and rail running and with graphite.

I changed the steer and ran it again - 2.49. okay that's getting better but still sounded awful on the board so I looked at where the double step had been removed and the plastic had not been shaved wide enough for the nail heads to fit without rubbing the outer edge of the nail head.

So I dismantled and shaved it with an exacto and switched the wheels around to different locations. Down the tuning board it went and sounded a little better but when I spun the wheels I could still hear a clicking noise. It was gonna have to do. Ran it down the track again 2.48, ran it again, 2.48, Then it got into the 2.47s which is a respectable time for our track considering my brother won council a couple years ago doing 2.49.

The car before the pack race was doing 2.461 on my dads track but that was with much better wheels and better wheel base and my fenders were in proper positions. My dad came out about then and said its time to go to the race - did you get some sleep? I just laughed and tried not to fall over.

We went to the race and I tried to sleep in the car but was way too nervous. We got there and this was a big race event - it was a combined district race with two districts and a lot of activities and people there. We went to the inspection table and I saw the guy inspecting the cars from a distance and I almost fell over - he had loupes on his head and light - who knows what magnification and was looking at all the cars like his life depended on it - magnet test - contraptions custom made to check/measure the cars and the works...

I knew this was not going to be good. I overheard him tell the person in front of us that his wheelbase was too wide and he wasn't allowed to race and then the next minute he said well I guess you are okay to race. So I had hope that he was somewhat flexible and understanding. So our turn came up and he was impressed with the car but quickly pulled out his calipers which were not digital like ours at home and he said "theres a problem" your wheels are not going to qualify they are too small - I said I know they are very close depending on where I measured them but most of the measurements were over the allowed diameter - he said I am measuring 1.174 right here and its supposed to be 1.175 .

I tried to think of something to say that would not sound like I wanted him to cheat for us to get in but come on-- .001 off and depending on where you measured? Is that really going to give us an unfair advantage? So after some pleading he said no go - I had to pull out some orange wheels that luckily I had brought that were right out of the box with nothing done to them, I frantically pulled the wheels off the car and took some sandpaper to the orange wheels to smooth a little bit and put a drop of oil in and eyeballed the steer and turned it in just in time for the race.

I looked at my son and I wanted to cry and collapse at the same time due to lack of sleep and I told him "this might not go well buddy. Our car is not going to be as fast as we hoped and we may not be getting a trophy today" He seemed upset but was glad to be able to race.

The cars that I saw there with the little time I had looked fast. The guy behind me had his car decked out with diamond gee fenders front trailers and back and a thin vinyl cover on the top with a printed design and I thought - oh crap! and he just happened to be a wolf just like my son. So the first race started and his car didn't wiggle which I was happy to see but I think the first race was against that gee car and we lost by half a car length. we were doing 2.57s and his car was doing 2.54s I knew we were not going to catch him.

But to our surprise he was still fast compared to the other cars and he got 2nd in the wolf race and a trophy. The top 4 advance to the finals and they let you take the car and do whatever to it before the finals race and then you have to get it reinspected. Sooo... I ate some food real quick and asked my son if he wanted to try and catch the fastest car by changing the car setup and risk making it go slower or leave the car the way it was knowing it wouldn't get first but not knowing how fast the other cars were going to be. He said lets catch the leader!

So I got no rest again and set up a make shift tuning board and grabbed some tape and used his car as a measuring device at 7 inches and we lessened the steer and did some more work on the wheels with some sandpaper and the nail buffer. We got the car reinspected and on to the finals. I had no clue what to expect but just hoped I didn't ruin his chances at another trophy.

First run down his car did 2.46s and then 2.45s and stayed in the 2.45s I knew unless by some fluke chance we were not going to catch the first car but we were going .02 faster each race so I was happy. I started to notice another car who was getting very similar times to ours and beat us in a couple races and you couldn't tell who won until you looked at the screen. It seemed we were going to get a solid 3rd overall as the races went on.

When they announced the names at the end and were giving trophies and showing the times and ranks - the 2nd place car only beat us by overall avg time of .0002 that's right 3 zeros and a 2! I couldn't believe it - I didn't think it was going to be that close- as I watched the race videos afterwards at home I was cringing at every wobble our car made thinking... that right there cost us 2nd place haha. Anyway the first place car avg time was 2.5415 ours was 2.5598.

At the race I was actually very calm and just happy that he got some trophies and the car did as well as it did considering the wheel fiasco. He had a great time and was very happy with the outcome - hes a good kid and never complains. After the race I was tormenting myself with all the crap we think about such as if I had only done this or that and that went on for a few days but I think I'm finally over the disappointment of not knowing what could have been if we could have run some decent wheels. I did try to compare times from before and after the race on my dads track.

I got the car home and ran it down the track without changing anything and it did 2.499 not sure if I can accurately make any conclusion but if it was going 2.475 before the race (difference of .024) then I would have like to think we would have taken it all if I could have kept those wheels on there since total avg time difference at the race was .0183 ... but who knows.

Anyway sorry for the long story but I had to get it all off my chest since this has been eating at me... I think I can finally focus on something else hahaha. On to the next goal! We learned a lot and will be better prepared next time!

Thank you to DD4H for all his awesome advice and products! Thanks to everyone who answered my many questions! You guys rock!

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Hi DerbyDentist, I have been waiting to hear what happened. Congratulations on the third place finish. You guys did great. Remember that this hobby is all about learning to go fast and is a game of constant learning. As you get more experience things get a little easier as far as building fast scout cars. Just think how much better you and your son will be next year. You son built an awesome car that was fast enough to place at districts which is a very good accomplishment. I hope to see you build cars and race with us in the pro league with us. I am doing the amature league this year since this is my first full year of racing with the big boys. Best of luck to you in your next race.
 
I was anxious to hear how it went thinking you received your order and would complete the build the way you planned. There was nothing more you could do and your son saw how to do your best. There's no doubt with all that experience under your belt, you'll dominate next year!
 
Good to hear back from you and congratulations on his accomplishment. You will get faster next time you race. Now go asleep if u can. Lol
 
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Good to hear back from you and congratulations on his accomplishment. You will get faster next time you race. Now go asleep if u can. Lol

First off...you guys did really well and have nothing to hang your head about! Second, thanks for getting back to us as it appears that I was not the only one that was curious as to how things went for you. Third, I am glad that I am not the only one that has gone thru this roller coaster of emotion! ;)

Until this year, we never finished higher than 2nd in either the den or pack. We did win his Den this winter and finished 2nd in the pack. Two days before that pack race, I discovered this web site. So, you are way ahead of the curve as far as learning & building. Next year you can teach him more about the physics involved and the reasons why different things work and why certain things don't. In fact, you don't need to wait until next year, you can start anytime with those lessons. Something as simple as when you are pumping up his bike tires, you can explain the reason why it rolls easier when inflated. Kids EAT this stuff up!

Good luck as you move forward and most importantly, remember to have fun!!!!!! :D
 
Congratulations! That is dedication. Your son took home some great hardware. I'm sure that makes him happy. And after all, that's what we all do it for.....to spend time with them, to teach them and, of course, to see that smile on their face.
 
Thank you everyone! I keep reminding myself that we are just lucky to have been able to race in a district race and that the district lead allowed us to race in their district. So I am very grateful for that! Weston said to me after the race - hey dad now I have a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place trophy - now all I need is a 4th place trophy next ! haha gotta love kids and their love for life and finding joy in the small things and looking at the positives. He is a great example to me. We have both learned a ton.

couple questions_ I have been trying to watch the 2017 nationals races - where can I watch them? Also trying to watch the mid-america races - do they have those available yet?

Does the world championship race in NY allow proxy racers to send in cars?

Thanks
 
@derbydentist Silly question, are the trophies missing their tops, or are you supposed to affix your car to the top? It just looks odd to me.... I've never seen a trophy like that before....
 
@derbydentist Silly question, are the trophies missing their tops, or are you supposed to affix your car to the top? It just looks odd to me.... I've never seen a trophy like that before....
Thank you for saying that! I wasn't going to say anything cuz I didn't want to sound like I was complaining but it is weird looking! I'm not sure what it's for but there is a screw housing there if you decide you want to drill a hole through your car and attach it I guess? I may just go see if I can buy the trophy top that looks like the traditional car and screw it in
 
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Hey Derbydentist,
your son is smiling and holding trophies brother!!! Mission accomplished. Now get another car built and go FASTER!!! LOL You did awesome dad. And now you will only do better. Telling you nothing you dont already know and haven't already heard but I appreciate you sharing with us. And as far as being able to finally move onto something else... your first NPWDRL entry car! Get on it! ;) :D
 
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Hey Derbydentist,
your son is smiling and holding trophies brother!!! Mission accomplished. Now get another car built and go FASTER!!! LOL You did awesome dad. And now you will only do better. Telling you nothing you dont already know and haven't already heard but I appreciate you sharing with us. And as far as being able to finally move onto something else... your first NPWDRL entry car! Get on it! ;) :D
I appreciate it! Yes sounds like that is my new goal!
 
I hope people don't mind my popping in here, but I'm the co-chair of the ThunderPeaks Pinewood Derby, the primary author of the 2017 ThunderPeaks rules, and one of the people that derbydentist interacted with at the event. This is the District-level race for Four Peaks and Thunderbird Districts of Grand Canyon Council.

First, a bit of background might be in order: I've been involved with Pinewood Derby for 6 years, and a District-level chair for 5. I originally became involved during my son's Tiger year, when he attended the District Derby and I ended up refereeing some lively "dialogues" between irked parents who were interpreting the then-existing rules in much different ways. In my previous career, I wrote specifications for a living, so I offered some proposed changes to the rules to address these ambiguities, and next thing I get a reply: "Congrats - you're our new District co-chair!" :)

I'll be very forthright - the current ThunderPeaks rules try to set forth clear, measurable car specifications with a minimum of subjective or hard-to-test criteria. Also, the rules are specifically designed to support Cub Scouts and their parents / adult partners who work on the basics well (proper alignment, properly polishing axles and bores) and minimize as much as practical the effects of "bought speed" - we want the race to be decided by the effort of a Cub and his family, not the size of a parent's wallet.

In this year's rules, we defined wheel dimensions that can be measured while the wheels are on the car and that reflect a stock BSA wheel out of the box with minimal sanding / shaving / machining / etc., taking into account variations in molding tolerances. And we strictly enforce those minimum dimensions to the nearest 0.001", since a stock wheel (even with light sanding) shouldn't come anywhere near those minimums. This creates what we think is a "level playing field" for all rank-level entrants, where a boy who doesn't have the specialized equipment to modify wheels can compete fairly with his peers. We know that rotating wheel mass and moment of inertia has a large effect on performance, and being able to measure the wheels on the car (as compared to prior years' rules which called for wheels to be removed and weighed after the race) helps to catch out-of-spec wheels before the heats even start instead of damaging a car afterward.

This only works if inspection is thorough and uniform for all boys, and I'm honored to have Bob Weaver (the guy with the magnifiers and tools as my co-chair and chief inspector. Since Bob started inspecting all cars 5 years ago, parental complaints have dropped to almost zero. We want every car to race, but no car will race that doesn't meet all the specifications for its category.

What if a boy brings in a car that can't be brought into spec before racing starts? We sell stock US-made BSA wheels for $2.00 at the event, and have a fully-equipped pit area for car work. And if the car can't be brought into compliance for other reasons (too much weight to remove, extended wheelbase with no room to re-drill, etc.) we then offer to move the car to race in our Open-Unpowered class, where the rules are much more relaxed (no limits on wheels, wheelbase, length, weight (up to a point, anyway...) :)

We certainly hope that every one who attended and raced had a great time, and understand why we go through the extra effort to make it fair for all (except for that Open-Powered class, but that's another story...) :)

BB-8 was a very impressive car, and (after re-submittal within specifications) thoroughly earned its trophy-quality finish. I hope your son builds great cars in future years with your assistance.

Mark your calendars for Saturday, April 14, 2018 - when ThunderPeaks will run again!
 
Your car was beautiful in every way. I was more impressed that you DID correct the infractions and race with us. That is being a good sportsman.
 
Richard and Bob! Welcome to the forum! I was wondering if someone from the district race would be commenting on here but I expected that it would be Mr Baker. First of all I would like to say that my dad and I were just talking about you two yesterday. We were extremely impressed by the way you both handled yourselves and conducted the event. Eventhough it was awful being on the side of the rules that didn't allow me to race that day with those first set of wheels- we agreed that you both did the right thing and were grateful for a very fair race. I am grateful that we were allowed to race at all since our district didn't have a race. In fact my dad and I thought that you two might be our hope for one day having a Grand Canyon Council race again. Reading your rules comparison/unification among districts made me think you may have that same goal in mind? I think the last one we had was the one my dad was in charge of. Let me know if my dad or I can help to make this a reality. Thank you for posting all the pictures and results from the race- it is so much fun to look through! Yet another thing that made this race event a step above the rest. I was really hoping my district would put on a race next year but now I think that if they DO put on a race I will be kind of upset because that will disqualify me from coming to yours haha. A note for Bob specifically- I think I have been bitten by the pinewood derby bug and I too am addicted- not sure how to balance this 'hobby' with my family life. Best of luck to you in not letting it consume you again! I think I'm in deep.
 


Nice. How does it work out letting the kids stage their own cars? Does it slow things down tremendously? Any dropped cars?

How many racers did you have? We race upwards of 115-130 kids so I'm wondering if thats feasible

Finally got to see a Freedom Track in person. NOT a fan. Cars kept jumping off at the stop section. I like the way the Best Track drops out from under the wheels rather than making the car go up a hill.
 
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Nice. How does it work out letting the kids stage their own cars? Does is slow things down tremendously? Any dropped cars? How many racers did you have? We race upwards of 115-130 kids so I'm wondering if thats feasible

Finally got to see a Freedom Track in person. NOT a fan. Cars kept jumping off at the stop section. I like the way the Best Track drops out from under the wheels rather than making the car go up a hill.

There's a story behind this: The Freedom Track design USED to have the drop-out stop section, but there was a lawsuit involved with BestTrack and they had to change the design. My son's old Pack owned an older style Freedom Track with the drop out section and the track we use for Districts is a Freedom track with the "updated" design. The older one works so much better.

The good news is that it's a fairly simple mod to fix the Freedom track stop section problem. Randy Lisano did a write-up on Freedom Track improvements. Mod #8 is the relevant one here.
 
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way to go guys, my nephew finished 2nd at districts as well, only .001 separated 1st and 2nd place. He still earned a trip to council but the car was wiggling in the stretch so I am not confident about his chances at the council race. I
need to get a look at that 4 wheel touch tuning video