Axle rule question

[OneSpartan]

New member here and looking for help on rules for our upcoming council race.

Rules indicate "All axles must conform to the specifications of officially licensed BSA steel axles included in the BSA Grand Prix Kit or provided with BSA licensed wheel packs" and "Axle diameter must not be less than .084 inches along any portion of the axle which may contact the wheel bore (journal surface)"

My question is what are the specs of officially licensed axles? Would this rule exclude the use of oversize aftermarket axles?

Any help appreciated.

 

[Brian Stanley]

Seems like an odd rule, however, I would say these would be your horse:

https://derbydad4hire.com/BSA-Speed-Axles-A-PBSA.htm

 

[Reecedad]

I’m afraid to respond to this question lol. Last time I posted about axles it turned into a free for all!
It sounds like you have very liberal rules. From the wording you included in your post it sounds like you might be able to use axles that don’t come from the kit as long as they meet the same requirements. If that’s the case, you should consider the axles Brian suggested. If you have to use axles directly out of the kit, but are not limited to the current year then you should consider vintage axles.

 

[Mojo Racing]

LOL

 

[OneSpartan]

Appreciate the input. I'll go with the DD4H axles recommended. The rules are eight pages in total and seem to create more issues than clarity.

 

[Mojo Racing]

You should ask your pinewood committee for clarity, before you buy, then. Some of this advice can get your car DQ'd because they can decide on raceday and make it very clear then. You don't want that.

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

You should ask your pinewood committee for clarity, before you buy, then. Some of this advice can get your car DQ'd because they can decide on raceday and make it very clear then. You don't want that.

I agree with this advice! Get your rules clarified. The rules are written quite ambiguous, but they can easily be interpreted to mean that your axles must have contained the original crimp marks that come on the stock BSA axles.

 

[Mojo Racing]

Exactly!!!

If you don't have them clarified, your interpretation of the rule may differ from the actual intention of the rules from the committee.

And that could lead to unexpected consequences during the race or at check in.

 

[Reecedad]

Yes, always check with the race organizer

 

[Charles Studer]

LOL......sorry I spit my drink across the room......
Yes. ALWAYS VERIFY YOUR RULES. There is no weaker argument on race day than some forum guy said it was fine. Ok good sir. Your son/daughter has 5 mins or is dqd

 

[OneSpartan]

Good points made. I've emailed the council race reps twice without response. Absent a response I'm comfortable going with the BSA speed axles from DD4 . They conform with the specs of stock axles as I understand it. Do the axle heads look different than a stock axle?

 

[Brian Stanley]

Good points made. I've emailed the council race reps twice without response. Absent a response I'm comfortable going with the BSA speed axles from DD4 . They conform with the specs of stock axles as I understand it. Do the axle heads look different than a stock axle?

I bought a bunch to use for testing as we're required to use the stock axles for racing. They're hard to tell apart from a stock axle that has had the crimps/burrs removed and been polished.

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

Somebody on another thread said these axles were visibly shorter than stock axles.

 

[Castoro Racing]

Somebody on another thread said these axles were visibly shorter than stock axles.

They are 2 different speed axles, the ones on the other thread are called BSA Elite and have a larger diameter than stock BSA axles. The BSA Speed axles referenced here are supposed to have the same specs as the actual BSA axles, the BSA elites do not.

 

[Brian Stanley]

BSA Speed Axle on left, stock from box on right. Neither have been touched (no sanding, polish etc.)

They're the same diameter and same length, both made of steel. One is zinc coated and the heads are different. If you remove the crimp marks from the stock axle, slot the heads and polish both they are practically indistinguishable . If I had the ruleset listed above I would run them as they are a world of difference better, but that's just me. You'll have to decide for yourself. We don't run them in Scouts because our rules say "from the box".

Seems to me it would be nearly impossible to find a non-BSA axle with all of the exact specs of a BSA axle, so it seems odd to me that they even have this rule, why not just say BSA from the box.

 

[FernPRacing]

OneSpartan... I am assuming that you are reading the Great Lakes Field Service Council rules? This year the rules are the essentially the same as they were last year, and last year after market axles were fine as long as they were attracted to a magnet (in other words stainless could get you in trouble). No one that I am aware of had their wheels/axles removed to check that the length of the axle was the same as the stock axles, it was more a visual inspection other than the magnet. (For wheels they use calipers and inspected the inside, but that is a separate question.) FYI, we used the BSA Speed Axles last year, and plan to again this year.

 

[OneSpartan]

OneSpartan... I am assuming that you are reading the Great Lakes Field Service Council rules? This year the rules are the essentially the same as they were last year, and last year after market axles were fine as long as they were attracted to a magnet (in other words stainless could get you in trouble). No one that I am aware of had their wheels/axles removed to check that the length of the axle was the same as the stock axles, it was more a visual inspection other than the magnet. (For wheels they use calipers and inspected the inside, but that is a separate question.) FYI, we used the BSA Speed Axles last year, and plan to again this year.

Yes, you are correct - it is the Great Lakes Field Service Council. I really appreciate the input. One more thing regarding the GLFSC's rules - do you know if removing the outside step on the wheels is prohibited? I cannot find that it is explicitly ruled out, but again, do not want to risk failing inspection.

 

[FernPRacing]

We didn't remove the outside step last year, although looking at cars after they were turned in, it looked like at least one I noticed did (although I wasn't picking them up to look extremely closely so can't be 100% confident). So there I can only say that the rules state some things you can't do with wheels (which as you mentioned doesn't explicitly state you can't remove the step on the outside hub) , and then says, "the rules permit many wheel modifications so long as you observe the dimension limits and restrictions listed above," which I would infer to mean that you can remove the step.

 

[OneSpartan]

We didn't remove the outside step last year, although looking at cars after they were turned in, it looked like at least one I noticed did (although I wasn't picking them up to look extremely closely so can't be 100% confident). So there I can only say that the rules state some things you can't do with wheels (which as you mentioned doesn't explicitly state you can't remove the step on the outside hub) , and then says, "the rules permit many wheel modifications so long as you observe the dimension limits and restrictions listed above," which I would infer to mean that you can remove the step.

Thanks again. I am new to these rules as our pack does not enforce anything other than weight and length/width. I have sent two emails to the address at the bottom of the rules sheet along with another email to the derby chair and have heard nothing back. I'll post a response if I ever get one.