Common Ground?

[BulldogRacing]

O.K guys, I have never created a poll so this is my first try. I have looked at rules from all the major PWD leagues. There are no classes with the exact same rule set. I would love to see a class that is the same as a benchmark class, a class we all have in common. In Basket ball the Goals are all 10', A track is 400 meters, a football field is 100 yards, and a PWD track is 42'. Now I think it would be cool if we took the Basix class or SS class or just conformed to a common class and race the hell out of it. I think it would be awesome to have all the major leagues race this class at an event once a year, this could rotate between league owners. When I went to MA's this year I was expecting to see such an event. I know all were invited but I think more needs to be done to get everyone on board. I believe this would be health for our sport and help it to grow. We all make each other faster with this level of competition, and I believe this would bring out the fastest cars of the year!

Here is what I posted at APR,

Question: How many guys here would like to see a race with the major PWD leagues each year. Maybe it could rotate between league owners, we could all have a common class that is a popular class among all venues? Is this a pipe dream? I think something like this could be huge! Heck, split the $ between venues, make it a big deal! Then we would always have a common rule set in one class? A benchmark class, a builders class, do it for America, for the children. O.K, I'll shut up now but I would love to help out with anything like this. Good luck fellow builders!

So I pose the same question, How many guys here would like to see a race with the major PWD leagues each year.

 

[TRE]

It wont happen

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

I was so tempted to click the button telling you Bulldog is living in the clouds. But that would have been the Pot Bellied Stove calling the Kettle, Pudgy!

If this were to ever happen, I'd definitely participate. I believe that Nationals makes the most sense as being the venue. But Troy may be right about the chances of it ever happening.

 

[Maglev]

Bulldog you are a great ambassador for PWD and I wish you the best in your Herculean effort to have a unified Pro league. Although folks have moved apart due to various reasons, issues, personality clashes, whatever, it is still worth trying to have at least one National level unified race in SS class to race against the best racers from all leagues. The league organizers will have to figure out a way to split the entry fees amicably to encourage participation and share annual hosting responsibilities. The MA Nationals is a good event venue. Question is what do we have to do to get the other league racers to participate live or send in their cars.

 

[Vitamin K]

I've actually chewed on some similar ideas in the twisted mess that is my own mind.

One approach might be to form a league-independent standards committee that would determine a ruleset for a core set of classes. Looking at the similarities across the leagues, it would make sense to come up with a standardized ruleset for (in NPWDRL terms), approximations of BASX, Street Stock, Street Pro, Eliminator and Unlimited.

Ideally, you'd hope to get the independent leagues to adopt the unified standards for the represented classes, but this might not be necessary. Instead, you might focus on having these rules be in place for any kind of big event races that builders from the varying leagues might send cars to. Of course, if any of these "big event" races are organized (and financed!) by a particular league, it's not hard to see why said league would be reluctant to adopt an external ruleset for the event.

Might be worthwhile effort to establish the standards committee, draft class rules, and then start working on ways to foster adoption thereof. It could be a slow process.

 

[GravityX]

That's a tall order Bulldog. Not saying it won't ever happen. Many things would need to be overcome in order to make something like that work. I certainly wish you the best in this endeavor.

I would certainly be a participant. I believe there are classes that are very much alike now, with the only major difference being the 143g vs 141.7g. With that being said, how much is 1.3g worth in speed? Heck I don't believe any of my cars weigh 143 grams right now, typically 142 grams. I certainly don't believe 1 gram of additional weight would put me at the top. Or am I missing something? /images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif

 

[561 racing]

I wish it could happen but have my doubts. It would be cool to bring both tracks and race once in each lane on both tracks to determine who goes to the finals, then repeat for finals.

 

[BulldogRacing]

That's a tall order Bulldog. Not saying it won't ever happen. Many things would need to be overcome in order to make something like that work. I certainly wish you the best in this endeavor.

I would certainly be a participant. I believe there are classes that are very much alike now, with the only major difference being the 143g vs 141.7g. With that being said, how much is 1.3g worth in speed? Heck I don't believe any of my cars weigh 143 grams right now, typically 142 grams. I certainly don't believe 1 gram of additional weight would put me at the top. Or am I missing something? /images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif

It depends what classes you are talking about GX. For example In SS vrs pro pure stock, wheels don't have to be directly across and custom machined wheels are allowed, in basic and basico the wheels appear the same but in reality no removal from the inside tread means no old style BSA wheels will be competitive. Little differences like that in a class could be merged and we could race the hell out of it once a year in a royal rumble fight to the death.

 

[Mister B Racing]

That's a tall order Bulldog. Not saying it won't ever happen. Many things would need to be overcome in order to make something like that work. I certainly wish you the best in this endeavor.

I would certainly be a participant. I believe there are classes that are very much alike now, with the only major difference being the 143g vs 141.7g. With that being said, how much is 1.3g worth in speed? Heck I don't believe any of my cars weigh 143 grams right now, typically 142 grams. I certainly don't believe 1 gram of additional weight would put me at the top. Or am I missing something? /images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif

It depends what classes you are talking about GX. For example In SS vrs pro pure stock, wheels don't have to be directly across and custom machined wheels are allowed, in basic and basico the wheels appear the same but in reality no removal from the inside tread means no old style BSA wheels will be competitive. Little differences like that in a class could be merged and we could race the hell out of it once a year in a royal rumble fight to the death.

Bulldog - I think if you were to look at the rules of PDDR you would see that their rules for the most part are the same as NPWDRL. Same weight too! The exception being the BASX class. At PDDR their class is called Pure Stock but the axle locations need to match scout locations but the cars can weigh 143 grams.

 

[BulldogRacing]

Question Remains : would you like to see a race with the major PWD leagues each year? If that becomes evident that all the racers want a royal rumble and voice it I believe all the League owners would make it happen, so if you want it voice it, the small rule differences can be fixed, that ain't the road block, as we get closer to the time of year where next years plans will be created if a race between all leagues would happen the table needs to be set.

 

[Quicktimederby]

Bulldog, I understand the frustration you are feeling. I had much of those same feelings when I started racing. I want to race everyone!!! After doing this for a while you figure out a few things. You can't make everyone happy, some are always looking for someone else to blame. This is why every time this topic gets brought up, and its been discussed many times. I have pretty much the same reply. Find the League you love and support the crap out of it. I have no doubt you will have a good time racing anywhere you decide to race. I don't have the time and energy to race multiple leagues, and many who try to race multi get burned out pretty quick and stop racing all together. As for the consistency between the leagues that one can be touchy. The old "we can't copy the others" we have to be different to set our self's apart. I get it and understand the thinking.

The National's race that was at Omaha was open and hoped that every one would attend. A lot of the NPWDRL guys showed and had a great time. The racing was good and fair for all. I was sad to see that most of the racers from APR boycotted the race because of the leagues association with John, me or for other reasons. And than there's the ones that just love drama, I wont even go there. Hopefully in time we all can come together and have a enjoyable race, whether on a month basis or yearly. It could happen you never know.

 

[Guest]

Bulldog, I understand the frustration you are filling. I had much of those same feelings when I started racing. I want to race everyone!!! After doing this for a while you figure out a few things. You can't make everyone happy, some are always looking for someone else to blame. This is why every time this topic gets brought up, and its been discussed many times. I have pretty much the same reply. Find the League you love and support the crap out of it. I have no doubt you will have a good time racing anywhere you decide to race. I don't have the time and energy to race multiple leagues, and many who try to race multi get burned out pretty quick and stop racing all together. As for the consistency between the leagues that one can be touchy. "The old we can't copy the others" we have to be different to set our self's apart. I get it and understand the thinking.

The National's race that was at Omaha was open and hoped that every one would attend. A lot of the NPWDRL guys showed and had a great time. The racing was good and fair for all. I was sad to see that most of the racers from APR boycotted the race because of the leagues association with John, me or for other reasons. And than there's the ones that just love drama, I wont even go there. Hopefully in time we all can come together and have a enjoyable race, whether on a month basis or yearly. It could happen you never know.

QT is right! This topic has been discussed since the beginning of PWD time! If you want to race at another league as well, then abide by their rules, it's that simple. If a racer from another league wants to race NPWDRL or PDDR and leaves his car at 141.7 who cares, it's better for the guys with the 143 gram cars. If you truly like building and racing how much of a problem is it for anybody to build a car to meet the rules wherever they race. Lately it seems using a common car for multiple venues won't work. Race dates are too close together to get a car back, re-prepped, and sent back out. I agree with QT...........support and race the league you love and give it your best.

 

[Guest]

Hey- seems I'm getting fatter by the day despite my best efforts and my head's been in the clouds for about as long as I can remember so I jokingly voted for the last option. The dog days of summer aren't helping my situation either!!

Bulldog- your optimism is refreshing and I too would like to see more unity. If every man does his part then just maybe it can be possible someday but it seems at the moment to be mere pipe dreams.

 

[zeebzob]

I would love to see it happen, but I don't think I will live to see the day. The Nationals at M/A this year was something that I heavily marketed in my podcasts. That was the perfect setting for builders of all leagues to participate in, but not everyone was on board. I feel they missed out on not only some great racing action (especially the Unlimited and Snail classes

) but also on good fun and fellowship.

I am going to take the approach of just trying to be as positive about this hobby as I can be, its waaaaay too easy to focus on the negative aspects. Don't get me wrong, in the past I know that I have had my fair share of drama surrounding me...but some people just NEED to be told how wrong they are! LOL

Anyway, Joel is right support the league(s) you love. If there is one you don't love, you don't have to support it. (Maybe try not to talk $h1t about it either).

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that I am not in the position to make something like this happen, that would be for the bosses (John, Terry and Glenn and their consiglieres (Joel & Kinser, Blake & Mood and David). Until they all have a sit-down, just race where and as often as you want to.

 

[GravityX]

That's a tall order Bulldog. Not saying it won't ever happen. Many things would need to be overcome in order to make something like that work. I certainly wish you the best in this endeavor.

I would certainly be a participant. I believe there are classes that are very much alike now, with the only major difference being the 143g vs 141.7g. With that being said, how much is 1.3g worth in speed? Heck I don't believe any of my cars weigh 143 grams right now, typically 142 grams. I certainly don't believe 1 gram of additional weight would put me at the top. Or am I missing something? /images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif

It depends what classes you are talking about GX. For example In SS vrs pro pure stock, wheels don't have to be directly across and custom machined wheels are allowed, in basic and basico the wheels appear the same but in reality no removal from the inside tread means no old style BSA wheels will be competitive. Little differences like that in a class could be merged and we could race the hell out of it once a year in a royal rumble fight to the death.

If you truly like building and racing how much of a problem is it for anybody to build a car to meet the rules wherever they race.

I'll have to say this may be the direction I'm headed. Racing 2 leagues is tough tough, because that means having 2 sets of cars, due to conflicting dates. I'm good with that. More builds, more track time and more experience should equal more success. This by no means means that I would race every class in both leagues. That would be a monumental task I am not prepared to take on. I could then compare each car to one another to see where each car stands, respectively. Then if there ever becomes common ground for a "one of" event, I'll be more than ready!

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

All I can say is look back at the old National races in Ohio and Kentucky. Opposing league ran them and people from the other leagues came in and cleaned up. There was no crying about slight rule changes. If you didn't come to race at Nationals then you did not want to earn the title. The best racers won Nationals. Slight weight difference is not an excuse. It is wood and plastic wheels.

Take a look in the mirror and correct what YOU are doing to cause the issues and correct that instead of looking past the BS YOU contributed. Quit crying and saying races are rigged. Quit crying and saying you can't win unless you are live. Quit saying people tampered with your car. Quit crying and saying you have to use certain parts to win at a certain location. It is a PINEWOOD DERBY RACE. Nobody ever died of shame from losing one. Race where you want and are comfortable. If you don't like a certain place then simply leave instead of constantly starting problems and then crying when you get the $hit slapped out of you for starting a problem. Quit buying the nonsense people try to say to you just to run down other leagues and get you to switch. Quit spreading the nonsense. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE DO NOT STICK AROUND LEAGUE RACING.

I have been running league races longer than ANYONE and I have seen it all come and go. It is always the same cycle. There will always be another league. There will always be someone getting cheated. If you really want to be part of the solution then quit doing the BS that causes the problems. That is 7 years of experience in a nutshell.

I have to say 2015 has been the hardest year of my life. It has been a personal hell. I can understand when people say they have a hard time just getting out of bed now. I am starting to feel like I am getting back to normal again. It is at times like this when you find out who your friends are and to those of you that have been there for me I say THANK YOU. I apologize for being absent and I am excited to feel the burn inside again. Enjoy this hobby and support it and make it better. Don't fall into the trap that does nothing but tear it down. Also please remember that the people running these leagues are HUMAN! We do the best we can. Thank you for your incredible support.

 

[BlewBYu]

2.9xx

 

[BlewBYu]

"All I can say is look back at the old National races in Ohio and Kentucky. Opposing league ran them and people from the other leagues came in and cleaned up. There was no crying about slight rule changes. If you didn't come to race at Nationals then you did not want to earn the title. The best racers won Nationals. Slight weight difference is not an excuse. It is wood and plastic wheels.

Take a look in the mirror and correct what YOU are doing to cause the issues and correct that instead of looking past the BS YOU contributed. Quit crying and saying races are rigged. Quit crying and saying you can't win unless you are live. Quit saying people tampered with your car. Quit crying and saying you have to use certain parts to win at a certain location. It is a PINEWOOD DERBY RACE. Nobody ever died of shame from losing one. Race where you want and are comfortable. If you don't like a certain place then simply leave instead of constantly starting problems and then crying when you get the $hit slapped out of you for starting a problem. Quit buying the nonsense people try to say to you just to run down other leagues and get you to switch. Quit spreading the nonsense. THIS IS WHY PEOPLE DO NOT STICK AROUND LEAGUE RACING.

I have been running league races longer than ANYONE and I have seen it all come and go. It is always the same cycle. There will always be another league. There will always be someone getting cheated. If you really want to be part of the solution then quit doing the BS that causes the problems. That is 7 years of experience in a nutshell.

I have to say 2015 has been the hardest year of my life. It has been a personal hell. I can understand when people say they have a hard time just getting out of bed now. I am starting to feel like I am getting back to normal again. It is at times like this when you find out who your friends are and to those of you that have been there for me I say THANK YOU. I apologize for being absent and I am excited to feel the burn inside again. Enjoy this hobby and support it and make it better. Don't fall into the trap that does nothing but tear it down. Also please remember that the people running these leagues are HUMAN! We do the best we can. Thank you for your incredible support."

I'm not really sure where all this is coming from. If you are suggesting that Bulldog needs to look in the mirror and change , then I think you are completely out of line. I think he is a great ambassador for PWD, probably the best we have, and certainly has no agenda. He is definitely not trying to stir the pot. He has an idea, and he wants to discuss that idea.

If you are not calling out Bulldog, then I have no idea what the above is about and I apologize for being ignorant.

 

[Guest]

I don"t think it was directed for any one person.

 

[bracketracer]

Guys, I think that was directed at people who work behind the scenes to tear down what John and his crew have built. Not Bulldog. He's a good Dawg!