Competing siblings

[chromegsx]

For the first time I have two boys racing each other this year. My first boy got 4th in speed his first year. We learned a few things and came back and won the next two years. So he's got 3 years and and 2 wins under his belt. This year will be his last year racing. Now the younger brother is his first year...and has been waiting for his chance to race a car. Last year I had my older son do nearly all the work to th car. I did some of the dangerous cuts and tool setup and tuning. My delima is that if I continue on that path with him. I may out build him with my younger son and the help he will need, possibly robbing him of a 3 peat win for his retiring year. On the other hand my younger son is really Looking forward to this and would really enjoy beating his brother at something. Wife says just build em and let the cards fall, but because of tuning and making sure we are at least as fast as the year before, I will have a good idea of which will win anyway. This isn't necessarily a problem as I can just keep that info to myself. But I'm not sure if I should tune each to be as fast as it can be or tune one back to make them as even as possible. Anyone with experience in this conundrum?

 

[Chief]

I would make three cars...one for them and one for you. Let the boys copy everything you do and help whomever when and where they need it. Show the oldest how to tune and let him do it and coach him along the way. The youngest just might in fact win...you just never know but to me that would be the fairest way to as your wife says "let the cards fall where they may". Keep us posted and best of luck to you and the boys!!!

 

[Vitamin K]

I think Chief is dead-on. Also, you might like some of txchemist's posts on builds that let the boys do their own drift tuning with paper shims.

 

[ngyoung]

I am assuming you are using a track and timer to tune? Or using a 2 lane track and maybe last years car as a pace car for this year? I would maybe hide your oldest son's times from yourself, only letting him see it. He can tell you if it went faster or slower while tuning if you still want to be in the room to help him tune. You can still watch it go down the track with the timer off or out of sight or without a pace car to see if it is running smooth. That will at least keep you from knowing for sure that you are out building your oldest.

Are the car bodies pretty much identical? It seems when I see siblings race for speed and pick their own car body designs the oldest usually have the most aero, thin car. That may end up being the biggest factor if all other steps are equal. If the bodies are identical it really could end up being a toss up when using the same axle and wheel prep. One may just have slightly better finish or better wheel bores. If the youngest doesn't win he will get his chance to beat his peers at least and could even claim a faster car then his older brother in following years as you both get better at building. You never know though, one year you may just build "the fluke" car that blows all your others away no matter how many more you build.

 

[quadad]

Not sure anyone can say this - I had three brothers competing with each other every year ! Their body styles were never exactly the same though, based on their preferences, but they were always competitive with each other using similar prep, etc. They ended up taking turns winning most of the time. It was pretty much my boys vs. the rest though and as long as their was some rotation with their finish, they didn't care too much.

Your two might be more competitive since they only have one year to race each other. You have the knowledge to help either one be the winner. I wouldn't purposely slow either car down though as you never know what happens on race day with the track or someone else's car. I would give them the same opportunities and let their preferences and work habits determine the result. It's a life lesson like many in Scouts.

 

[chromegsx]

Thanks all. Good advice. I just think I should give my youngest he same level of help that I gave his brother at that age...which is where my concern for out building him comes since I have more knowledge and skill than I did back in his first year. I do plan to have the oldest learn tuning this year. Not sure the youngest has the attention span for it. We will be testing against a pace car...last years race champion.. At test and tune night you are not allowed to race this years cars against each other. That has to wait till race day. But I will see how both cars do against the pace car. I like the idea of building a third car. It may come down to wheel selection. We didn't get any "good" wheels this year. Bores are bigger than I like. Oldest hasn't picked a car body yet. Youngest wants a million dollar bill. I said cool that's easy and fast. Although I can't make it quite that thin.

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

I had this same situation last year. I left the builds to each son and helped where necessary. Hands on hands when it came to power tools.
In the end my Weblo only lost to his Tiger brother. 4 of 6 races. They finished first and second in the pack and each won first in their rank.
My older son was ok with his little brother winning because frankly, he knew that the little guy had out worked him. I think my Weblo was satisfied being that he had won rank, pack and district races the previous year.

 

[quadad]

And if you want to really get something good out of the build process, find something that your older boy can instruct your younger son on. That experience will be more valuable than any trophy !

 

[Kinser Racing]

Together, do the best you can on both of them. One will win one won't. It's all you can do. I have one son that never got a pwd win and that's because him and his twin brother raced their only pwd their last years of cubs. One took 1st the other took 3rd, because it was my first pwd with my boys and someone snuck in and took 2nd. I did the best I could to be fair with both of them but still feel bad for him to this day.

 

[Bullet]

I had two years with two boys racing also. I also didn't know as much then as I know now and did not have a track. I actually new which one would take first and which was second at test night, although, they did not know. The younger son had won first the previous year...I knew the oldest was going to win the second year and it was his last year so I was fine with it. The oldest won previous years also.

When I started working on the cars with them for their last race together, I just told myself they both can't win and we can't build two cars with identical speed even if I tried...just "let the chips fall where they may" so to speak.

As mentioned earlier, it is a good life lesson. Although, I did get lucky that the oldest won on his last year. My youngest was able to win pack all the way to council the following year after the older was done. I still have a couple years left with the younger son so it's all out now! I think they were glad to see my older leave...now there are two of the three pack trophies available to other scouts! lol Will take away some of the evil eyes coming my direction! /images/boards/smilies/wink.gif

 

[chromegsx]

Update:
Well things didn't go according to plan but here it is 2:30 in the morning of the test run day, and car still don't have wheels on. /images/boards/smilies/frown.gif Life happened and I couldn't get the boys to do as much as I wanted them too. I got sick twice since Christmas and then fitting all the other extracurriculars and family functions it seems these cars always took a back seat. However after getting serious two days ago... I have our most aggressive setup yet this year...and am curious if I'll be able to make it stable. I could have gone more aggressive but chickened out and tried to get a bit more weight on the DFW. Waiting for wax to dry then I can stick em together and hope they are not duds.

 

[chromegsx]

Results are posted here...http://www.pinewoodderbyonline.com/post/2015-awana-builds-7275932?pid=1286013777#post1286013777.

Gotta Say thanks for the advice. It was a great race and came down to staging. Like others said it could could come down to anything, wheels, prep, axles, ect. We went to test night and couldn't get them tuned as I didn't have enough clearance in the DFW fenders and didn't have the younger brother axle holes deep enough, but after I got them reworked and repreped the wheels and axles, then tuned on my crappy track, I couldn't tell which was going to win...but thought that younger brothers car was faster on average based on a slow rolling test on the flat part of the track. Neither boy knew which was faster, only older brother knew his car was faster than his one from the previous year. Older brother didn't want to know either, and I didn't let younger brother know either. It was blast that it came down to the last race, but sad to see the little man tear up after we got home.

 

[ngyoung]

Good life lesson for the younger one. Maybe give him motivation to make a faster car next year. Then older bro can save his car to maybe have them race again if there is free time after the event.

 

[Crash Enburn]

Congrats to you and your boys!