Have I been too rough on Vitamin K?

Mr Chips Racing

Mr Chips Racing

0
Pro Racer
Feb 15, 2012
370
15
18
Utah
Fellow NPWDRL friends -

Yes I still consider you all friends. I am wondering since I am actually a half way decent guy (at times ) to get your view point on how I have treated VK. I disagreed due to many comments and not sending in a car. I believe those who race here add value and those who comment and do not participate are irrelevant. Just my 2 cents. I am giving the voice to the masses.
 
IMO he gives lots of advice for never sending in a car..i think he gets lot of crap for advocating bending rear axles.. thats my 2 cents
 
Mr Chips Racing said:
I believe those who race here add value and those who comment and do not participate are irrelevant. Just my 2 cents.
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There are many people who don't race here who I value their opinion. I wouldn't call them irrelevant. I bet many of those OG racers laid the foundation for the processes you use today. It sounds like you have to race in the NPWDRL to be able to post advice. Is that really where you're going?
 
W8NONU

What is this a Maryland Militia? Isn't your state already on fire from the BS going on there?

I'm curious of who you think laid the foundation for the things done today? Be prepared this will potentially put you in the sights of many if you go down this path.

Racing in the NPWDRL has proven to have the fastest racers bar none. So why would anyone want to come here and try to put in their opinion or insight without participation? I don't go to Indy or the NHRA and tell them how to drive or build a car. I would never dream of it. Have I raced cars yes? But I am not qualified to share my thoughts. No. This is where my irrrelevant verbage is applied.
 
Mr Chips Racing said:
W8NONU

What is this a Maryland Militia? Isn't your state already on fire from the BS going on there?

I'm curious of who you think laid the foundation for the things done today? Be prepared this will potentially put you in the sights of many if you go down this path.

Racing in the NPWDRL has proven to have the fastest racers bar none. So why would anyone want to come here and try to put in their opinion or insight without participation? I don't go to Indy or the NHRA and tell them how to drive or build a car. I would never dream of it. Have I raced cars yes? But I am not qualified to share my thoughts. No. This is where my irrrelevant verbage is applied.
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Nope I have never met VK. I can only say I've read his opinions here and on other forums.

How long has PWD been around? And when was this forum started?

I agree this race league has the fastest racers and is one of the reasons why I frequent this place. I would disagree that outside opinion isn't wanted. You'll find educated opinions often challenge the status quo which in turn creates change. For example, fenders, specially cut wheels, lubricant and wax formulas, etc. Those ideas didn't just spring from the NPWDRL. I would also agree that unqualified opinion is useless. But, as you quickly point out, there are plenty of people here ready to squash bad advice and even more people ready to pitch in give great advice.

I can see where VK might not have the time as I'm also a busy dad with many obligations. I can see there is some history here and I'm surprised you guys haven't raced. It might have been easier to race him at MA or APR.

I agree... If you strive to find a quality set by buying a bunch of wheels and axles then you might as well have purchased the quality parts in the first place. It's cheaper, would save time, and eliminated them as variables. Everything else comes down to process and technique.

Btw, I haven't voted.
 
I do not believe anyone is against advice, but , racing makes you faster. I believe most of us have each learned that individually. Every now and then ,I go back and look at some of my own posts, and ask myself, "what in the world was I thinking." I usually preface my "advice" is from a novice racer, so people take it for what its worth.

I believe advice is solicited when people visit here, but only the right advice, learned through experience, to be given in the right circumstance. Of course there are times where we joke around, but in most cases, I believe that is easily discernible.

(Just so everyone knows, my post is not meant to be pointed at any individual)
 
Some of my best ideas were built from comments of people that had never raced. Fast, seasoned racers are a stingy bunch and typically don't give out much information... The NPWDRL works because we have a lot of non-league racers prying information out of the seasoned racers and because we have DD4H working hard to bring the latest and greatest to the market for everybody to use... that wasn't so true in the past. IMO place needs to be a mix of pros and newbies.... mix DT and APR and you have the NPWDRL....

So, yes we need thinkers like VK here at NPWDRL....
 
C'mon now, Chips, fighters don't hug it out until after the fight's over. Let's not get all squishy now.

Speaking to everybody: If you didn't like me or my opinions before, you shouldn't let the fact that I'm sending a car to NPWDRL change your views. I completely reject the hypothesis that participation in league racing gives any sort of credence to anybody's discourses.

Let's look at a "greatest hits" of my unpopular opinions, and examine whether or not sending a car in validates/invalidates them:

  • "Predator wheels don't have a place in the BASX class" - Well, this is an opinion on how the race should be run, and what constitutes a "low cost" class. My opinion on that matter will remain unchanged regardless of the race outcome.
  • "Grooved axles don't reduce friction!" - This one got some folks pretty worked up, because they thought I was claiming that there was no speed advantage to grooved axles. Not so. I was claiming that the speed advantage had nothing to do with friction reduction, and gave you math to prove it. Again, validity of statement unchanged by race outcome.
  • "Running oil for a 'dry lube only' race is unjustifiable" - Hey, that's what my moral compass tells me, and I'm sticking to it. My personal interpretation of race ethics aren't affected by a race outcome.
  • "Bent axle alignment is a workable method if done properly" - Now, this one possibly could be affected by race outcome, because there's a provability aspect in the one's race successes that is tied to one's choice of techniques. That said, plenty of folks drill with the block/bullet/goatboy jig and still run dog slow on their first few outings, so I would posit that it would take several races to come to any conclusion here. Also, I'll mention that the post that started all of the poopstorm was me giving a suggestion to somebody building for a scout race.
So in short, I'd rather that people engage with me on the actual content of what I have to say, rather than whether or not I'm sending cars in. When I signed up on this board, I never saw a notice that claimed that participation in discussion was contingent on racing.

As you were.

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I completely agree that we need more guys like VK. Even if he isn't racing in a league he has been bitten by the bug just as bad as we all have. I think he also helps with bringing more attention to the league and getting others interested. Other then the whole axle canting debacle most advice that he has given has pretty much been just repeating what a league guy has said. Hell a good majority of the advice given buy a lot of us here for the last 2 years have been based off of older buried posts.

I also think that there is a lot of value in people who have just learned how to do something teaching other people. I think a lot of little nuances of a given skill get taken for granted when someone has been doing it for a long time. They have been going from step A to Z so many times and when showing someone else they may go through each one in their brain but end up only covering A,B,C,D,G,H,M,N,T,U,V,X,Y,Z.

5KidsRacing said:
Some of my best ideas were built from comments of people that had never raced. Fast, seasoned racers are a stingy bunch and typically don't give out much information... The NPWDRL works because we have a lot of non-league racers prying information out of the seasoned racers and because we have DD4H working hard to bring the latest and greatest to the market for everybody to use... that wasn't so true in the past. IMO place needs to be a mix of pros and newbies.... mix DT and APR and you have the NPWDRL....

So, yes we need thinkers like VK here at NPWDRL....
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I've noticed that as my cars became faster, the less helpful content my posts contained. I think that the same can be said about many of the racers who are faster than me. I'm sure they grew tired of answering the same questions over and over. The same questions that I asked when I joined this forum. This leaves the door open for people that may not have the same level of experience to answer the questions posted by those who are just starting out.

I don't like bending axels to tune a car - But I've done it
I don't like tuning on a tread mil - I've done that too.
I don't like the DW jig for drilling cars - yep used that too.
I don't like the DW wheels shaver - My fingers still hurt when I think of using that thing.
I don't like using tungsten cylinder - Took me two years to figure out there was a better way.
I don't like running graphite, stock wheels and axels - But for my kids, I do that too. (I have NEVER run sub 3.0 with stock parts)

The point is that we all have our own gestation period we must go through. We will all learn at our own pace and our methods will evolve. VK was stating what he knows and believes in. His tack may be questioned but I believe he was offering his best advice based on his experience. I also believe that it then falls to the racers with the most experience to step forward and correct any misleading. I believe Kinser did just that. I

I do find it ironic that you would question anyone's masculinity by challenging him to a race of little toy cars.
blah


So yes, your reaction was a little over the top. We need to encourage new racers to join our league and then beat them like red headed step children. That's what you guys did to me and I was totally humbled. But, that lead to the motivation to chase them down!

I believe your heart is in the right place but a better approach is needed if we are going to grow this league and support John.
 
It is true, without non-racers opinions, we wouldn't have much to argue about. It'd be racer arguing against racer which usually gets proven on the race track. However, I believe non racers just have opinions. The only danger is the new people coming to the site taking their word for gospel which is why we promote things like NOT BENDING AXLES. If you want to promote and talk about that stuff, go to DT.
 
Obsessedderbydad said:
It is true, without non-racers opinions, we wouldn't have much to argue about. It'd be racer arguing against racer which usually gets proven on the race track. However, I believe non racers just have opinions. The only danger is the new people coming to the site taking their word for gospel which is why we promote things like NOT BENDING AXLES. If you want to promote and talk about that stuff, go to DT.
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...and not tuning on a treadmill!
blah


I couldn't resist, I had to throw that one in there.
smile
 
Yes, I'll admit it - I have tried it (tuning on a treadmill). Fortunately, I did not buy it for that purpose...
 
My track was tearing up wheels right and left before i filed and sanded it..could not imagine what a treadmill would do to them
 
TRE said:
My track was tearing up wheels right and left before i filed and sanded it..could not imagine what a treadmill would do to them
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FWIW, I don't think many DTers would advocate tuning on a treadmill.
 
So over the weekend I had a little time to start sorting my wheels and axles per VK rules for this race. I worked on the stupid standard axles and now I remember why I just buy them. Non-straight, stupid crimps, polish crappy. But with all that being said I am going to try a new axle modification for graphite. Having some fun but getting these axles correct was WAY more work than just polishing stainless...
 
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