How to do stuff with the least amount of monies??

[ugotkevin]

Hey guys new to the forum. So my kids are doing the pwd thing and when I went over to the scout office to pickup some weights I saw all these fancy tools. If I bought everything that's well over $100. So my question to you is, what modifications would you recommend without breaking the bank? I'm thinking of just picked up a few tools every year.

Right now I'm thinking of:
- Pro Body Tool
- Pro Rail Rider Tool
- Wheel and Axle polishing kit (mandrel with sandpaper)

Thoughts?

 

[Cubscout Dad]

I would buy after market axles and wheels if you can use them($40 shipped) or file, sand and polish the stock axles. ($8 in sand paper from Hobby Lobby) then watch the videos for setting up a rail rider with canted rears. That should not cost you to much (#43 drill bit $4) you could also polish and wax the bores ($20 in parts maybe) much better way to spend your $100 and get a faster car then buying all that (junk)/ stuff from the scout store. But it's a start

 

[Vitamin K]

Hmm. I agree with CS that it would be helpful to know what sort of rules you have to run under.

I don't think anybody on this forum is going to recommend any of the tools you listed there, though.

Can you give a run-down of the tools you already own? Saws? Drill press? Etc?

 

[ugotkevin]

I asked about rules and no one in our pack seems to know or care, including the den leader. I looked at the district rules and they seem to be the normal bsa rules - so it looks like everything but oil is legal. Doesn't sound like people around here are hard core. Not sure if that's good or bad

As far as tools that I own, I have a battery powered drill, sander, and saw. I have a basic set of drill bits and that's about it. I have rubbing, polishing, and wax stuff for the car, and graphite for door locks.

I know a guy who has a drill press but he doesn't have a vice for it, and can borrow a finer saw.

I'm a beginner here so sorry for the dumb questions, how do your bend the axles without that bending hammer tool?

 

[Vitamin K]

I asked about rules and no one in our pack seems to know or care, including the den leader. I looked at the district rules and they seem to be the normal bsa rules - so it looks like everything but oil is legal. Doesn't sound like people around here are hard core. Not sure if that's good or bad As far as tools that I own, I have a battery powered drill, sander, and saw. I have a basic set of drill bits and that's about it. I have rubbing, polishing, and wax stuff for the car, and graphite for door locks. I know a guy who has a drill press but he doesn't have a vice for it, and can borrow a finer saw. I'm a beginner here so sorry for the dumb questions, how do your bend the axles without that bending hammer tool?

Disclaimer: Most folks here do not like bent rear axles. They will tar and feather those who advocate them (like me). That said, you still need a way to bend your DFW, regardless of what you're doing with the rears...

I like to take a soft block of wood, a throwaway axle, a wheel and a pair of pliers. Stick the throwaway axle into the wheel and mark where you want the bend to happen. Take the axle out of the wheel and clamp it with the pliers at your mark, so that the head is protruding. Put the edge of the pliers jaws up against the wood, so that the protruding bit of nail is over the wood, perpendicular to the edge. Press the "head end" of the nail down into the wood, which will bend the nail and leave an indentation in the wood. Then take your actual racing axle and lay it in the indentation, grip with the pliers and bend it in a similar fashion, but with more control, so as to get the bend you want.

 

[BulldogRacing]

I would use the search feature on this board and you will soon have many questions answered. Mosest guys spend many hours researching these questions, if not it;s hard to understand the answers

 

[Crash Enburn]

Cheap? You rang?

I've been at this for ~8 years now, both in scouts and AWANA, and a bit here. I am really hesitant to spend money; which is fine for a local PWD.

Like you, and everyone else here, I'm sure, I was drawn in by all the various tools and things available at the Scout Shop and/or Hobby Lobby. And, like most everyone, quickly figured out that I just threw my money into the wind.

I think my most important tool is my drill press. I bought a basic table-top drill press at Harbor Freight for ~$80. I use it for drilling axle holes, routing out the body or adding holes for weights, polishing axles, and more I'm sure. Having a drill press is a *huge* help.

High-grit sandpaper and a small flat file. The file I have is fairly thin (maybe 1/8"). I use it to file off the burrs under the nail head, to put a slight angle to the head, and then to cut a groove into the axles — the bumps on the axle are in the perfect position, as I file those off, it just happens to be where the groove needs to be. Then sandpapers. I ordered a pack of papers from 1000 to 3000 grit. I start with some 600 that I already had, and then use the various grits until I've finished the 3K. In my opinion, the 3K leaves a nice surface behind and I've never polished higher than that. Most others here probably go more. We won our dens for 5 years, and then the Pack and District for the last two of those years. We've been in Trail Life USA for three years now, and have not lost a single heat yet. So 3K works for us. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

#44 Drill Bit This is the correct sized bit for drilling axle holes for BSA axles (#43 for AWANA) I bought it at ACE Hardware for < $5. I don't remember the price. But whatever it was, it's totally worth it.

Square and Calipers (with 1/32" markings at the very least) If you can measure really finely, you can get some pretty accurate holes. I bought the cheap plastic calipers at Harbor Freight (the more expensive digital one with fractional markings is awesome). I bought a 6" sliding square there as well.

Belt Sander Either bench top or hand held. It helps you smooth and shape your cars very quickly.

Weight Lead is very easy to melt and pour; and is much heavier than the zinc "weights" available at the shops. It's also pretty much free if you sweet talk the guy at the tire shop. However, if you can't use lead, or don't mind the initial expense, 1/4" tungsten cubes are the way to go. 1.6x denser than lead. But you don't want to enclose and lose them forever within the body of your car, so you'll want to have accessible weight pockets and some aluminum HVAC tape to hold/cover the weight.

Those are the things that were the most important w/o getting too specialized.

Other things that are really useful:
Silver Bullet or The Block It's a solid ingot of aluminum that you essentially snap your car into. It helps steady everything when drilling, and has built in mechanism to drill your car at a 3° angle for the rear wheels. However, I went a couple years (district winners) using a spare wood block, some math, and a drill bit to tilt the body to the correct angle. The Silver Bullet is much better, but for a Pack race, you can get by without it.

Dremel Really, I use mine only for some finer sanding/shaping and for cutting the K-House groove on my axle(s) (it's just cutting a slot into the axle head so you can turn it w/ a screwdriver)

Axle Straightening Tool [Don't freak out, guys. I don't use it for that. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif] This is one of those early purchases I made and regretted — at least for its intended purpose. I use it for aligning my K-House groove, and for bending my DFW axle. The tool is two halves, so it winds up making a nice line to use as a guide for putting in the groove. Drop the axle in, fire up the Dremel with a cutting wheel, align it to the seam, and you're done pretty quickly. I then turn the axle 90° so the slot is vertical, put the axle in to the "bend it here" mark, then tap the axle at the tool's edge using a piece of wood and a hammer (I had used a screwdriver instead of the wood, but that left sharp edges on the axle that then scored my wheel bores)

Band saw Came across a rather nice one on Craigslist for $100. Absolutely love it. I use it to cut body blanks and to shape cars. Way, way better than any other form of cutting I'd tried. Highly recommended. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif

The very best tool of all, really, is this forum (and the NPWDRL forum at NPWDRL.Boards.Net). The guys here really know their stuff, and they are very helpful. This forum, btw, belongs to DerbyDad4Hire, and he sells everything you need to be fast. And no gimmicks.

So, really, the only really expensive thing you need is a drill press. And that is pretty useful for many other projects, so you don't really have to count that against your PWD budget.

There you have it. Cheap.

 

[DURASPANK]

Only useful tool I've bought at scout store was the wheel arbor and it's cheesy.

 

[Kinser Racing]

DO NOT buy the junk tools from the scout store. Click on the link to the left for Derbydad4hire and shop there.

 

[ngyoung]

Do you have access to a drill press? If youre willing to spend money on thise tools then you shiuld use it to get a silver bullet from dd4h. I would consider ge

I had a shopping list i posted a few times to get other local supplies that are good enough alternatives for scout races.

Hobby lobby has a ultra fine sand papper set for $8-40% with their coupon. Use that to polish the axles. While you're there pick up a tube of Revel BSA wheels that come with axle nails. Throw out the wheels and use those axles to polish. They dont have the crimp marks and flashing to worry about filing off.

 

[derbychip]

How serious do you want to get, if you're fine with Scout level and don't want to invest in much for specialized Pwd tools, I would recommend a "plug n play" block dd4h sells.... It's already drilled and can't in front Dom wheel is set as well as rears. No bending of axles needed... Note if rules allow get wheels and axles from a supplier (again dd4h) which are already tried and good to begin prep... With the battery drill you already have you can do the prep yourself (search this site, it's all on here) or if your not comfortable with that there is options to have parts pre prepped when you buy... Take your time when installing everything and you will have a quick car....

 

[ugotkevin]

Thanks for the recommendations, I really appreciate it. I'm going to borrow a drill press from an older guy who doesn't use his stuff anymore so hopefully it'll work. I'm trying to find the silver bullet but for the life of me I can't find it, is it out of stock?

 

[Vitamin K]

As far as I am aware, the Silver Bullet is not currently available at the DD4H store. Also, if you need a custom drilled blank, it might be good to inquire about turnaround time to make sure you can have it by your event.

Of course, I don't believe that the poster has a drill press, so that makes the investment in a Silver Bullet setup spendier. Not necessarily unjustified, but it depends on how serious you wanna get.

Might also take a look at davet's hack of the Revell drill tool to make canted holes.

 

[Vitamin K]

Thanks for the recommendations, I really appreciate it. I'm going to borrow a drill press from an older guy who doesn't use his stuff anymore so hopefully it'll work. I'm trying to find the silver bullet but for the life of me I can't find it, is it out of stock?

It is being replaced with a new tool (from what I have heard). No word on when that's coming out, though.

You might try buying one used, if you really want one, or you could obtain the Jewkes Block, which is essentially the same tool.

 

[zigzag]

Disclaimer: That said, you still need a way to bend your DFW, regardless of what you're doing with the rears...

Be sure to determine what type of track you are running on- if it has a center rail you steer into the rail - if not I would set up to run straight -

 

[ugotkevin]

What do mean? Like wood vs aluminum? I thought they all had that center rail?

 

[Vitamin K]

What do mean? Like wood vs aluminum? I thought they all had that center rail?

Most pinewood derby track have center rails.

Super Track brand tracks are made of plastic and have no center rail, but side rails instead.

I find the concept abominable. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[ugotkevin]

Wow, I've never heard of such a thing!

So do most people just eyeball bending the nail for the fdw like what you were talking about or use a more precise method? Thanks for that link for getting that 3*. If I'm using the drill press, will clamping that down with a #45 bit on the edge work or is there a better method?

 

[Pinewoodguy]

Welcome to the addiction! I started league racing the year before my son was a Cub Scout and it opened my eyes! What's funny is that it's changed so much since 2012 so it's a constant learning curve. The big question is how much time and effort do you want commit to? I jumped in the deep end and my son and I haven't regretted one minute. I, like most remember only highlights of my childhood but I appreciate my pinewood derby races and the time I spent with my Dad making that car! My son has my 1 trophy with his 8!(and yes he reminds me all the time!)
Isn't that the point, to make sure he has more life experiences and that he grows up to be a better man than you, his father. PWD can teach a lot, to both of you.
Good luck.

 

[RSR]

So I helped my son win district and pack this year with his first thin, ladder frame style car. We tried to do it as cheaply as possible but there are certain things you need and they are cheaper from DD4H than the scout shop. Unless your district is seriously competitive some of the techniques you can learn here will just make everyone think your son cheated because of how embarrassingly fast his car is.

DD4H is the title sponsor for this forum and his pricing is actually really good.

At a minimum you need from DD4H:

• 3 ounces tungsten of cubes & 1 ounce tungsten putty to round out the weight.
• Wheel bore polish number #1
• zero friction graphite

You will still need a low residue synthetic wheel bore wax, to make fenders out of balsa and CA glue, fluffy cotton pipe cleaners and qtips. All of these supplies or better equivalents can be purchased from DD4H's website for reasonable prices. You can do a ton of research, which you should, to figure out what to do with all of those things using the search tool. The wrong wheel bore wax that doesn't cure hard and leave low residue behind could negate any other wheel prep so red rocket is probably the safe choice and would be fastest and is compatible with graphite. You can research other option with search tool but wont necessarily save. However, your real life full size car will probably look shinier for it.

As you said your rules are loose with wheels and axles but you are strapped for cash Revell axles would be a good jump start and you will still need to teach your son how to polish them in your drill with 1,2 & 3 thousand grit wet sand paper. Buy a few packs of BSA wheels so that you can find 3 wheels that are decent to start with. The extra wheels come in handy as you figure out how to polish the bores without ruining them. It is a fine line between well polished and overheated plastic.

You need a few#44 drill bits, your friends drill press, some clamps and ingenuity but you can help your son drill fast rear axle holes with a bit of luck. Again a Silver Bullet from DD4H would make this much easier.

Do your research for your son and teach him the ways. A corded drill in a clamp on the corner of a workbench is the main tool my son has used to prep wheels and axles for a fast car under what would be considered Box Stock rules here.

A parent that buys all their supplies from DD4H, plus drops money on lightened wheels and Dynasty 92 BSA axles could well be faster than what you and your son build unless they screw it up otherwise. I would buy what you can afford and help him build the fastest car he can.