In need of some help please!

[92hatchattack]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post here so hello all!

I am in need of some tips on getting my sons pinewood derby car running faster this year. Normaly we dont do a ton of work to it. We make sure it is weighted well, polish the axles to a high shine, and usually have one of the front wheels just barely touching the track. We pack it full of graphite and off it goes. It usually does pretty well too, but this year we are looking for that edge to make his car unbeatable.

Can you guys give some suggestions on which area of the car to work on that will gain us the most benifits? Should we be concentrating on the wheels more? I dont usually touch this at all but have seen people that shave the wheels down and work on the bores and such. Im just not sure what will provide the most benifits for my time as the race is less than two weeks away. So if I need to order anything online I have to order asap.

Also, does it matter which side of the block is the front? I know the axle locations are different on each side (we have to use stock axle holes) but I was never sure which side should be the front.

Please, any advice at all to give us the endge would be great. Its time that we move past the basics and start to edge out the competition!

Thanks everyone!

---Joe

 

[IAE Racing]

The long side of the block is the front. The back axle is 15/16 from rear. Weight placement. And polish wheel bores with DD4H bore polish. along with axes. What do your rules state applying to the wheels?

Review "keys to winning..." it the first post in "building tips"

 

[92hatchattack]

Ahhh, see we have always had the short side in front. My question then is, with the 15/16" in the rear, how do you backload so much weight back there and still keep a low profile to the car? IM assuming you have to pack a lot of weight in the rear if you want the cars center of gravity to be what, 1.5" up from the rear axle?

I have to double check on the wheels but from what I remember they are not too strict here. As long as they are BSA wheels, but I would not want to shave the BSA writting off of the sides, as that may draw some questions.

 

[92hatchattack]

One other question. Does graphite choice really make a difference? Are there really faster, longer lasting graphite choices out there than the pine-pro stuff I get at my local hobby shop?

Thanks!

 

[bracketracer]

If you are allowed to lighten the wheels then do it. That one thing is the biggest jump in speed you'll get (assuming your alignment is anywhere close!). If you are allowed to use oil, that would be the second biggest boost. COM I don't sweat so much, unless your track is a continous arc type ramp. I would shoot for a COM around 7/8" on a scout car, unless the track is rough.

 

[92hatchattack]

Ok, turn out the rules from last year simply state (The axles, wheels and body of the car must be official BSA parts ONLY )
So besides this I guess I can modify the wheels anyway Id like. Though I hardly know how to do so. Do you recoment using a product like the pro wheel shaver from derby werx? http://www.derbyworx.com/products/tools/pro-wheel-shaver/ , Or is there a similar tool available from this site? I'd love to use oil but we are strictly graphite. Our track is aluminum and arcs down into a straightaway. Its usually smooth allthough last year my car did pop up the front once on a poor joint.

Alighnment is another area I am fuzzy in. Are there special tools to get it right? One thing I dont have access to is a drill press. Im working with minumal tools here.

I'd also love to hear exactly how you guys like to weight your cars, and what weights you are using in which combinations.

Thanks you all very much for all the suggestions so far!

 

[Rocket car]

The easiest thing to do if you don't have a lot of tools is to buy a pre-drilled block from DD4H and cheetah 2.0 wheels. You will kill the competition!!!!

 

[sondo007]

The easiest thing to do if you don't have a lot of tools is to buy a pre-drilled block from DD4H and cheetah 2.0 wheels. You will kill the competition!!!!

I agree with Rocket for easy assembly and guaranteed fast a pre-drilled block with cheetah wheels is the way to go. Then all you need to do is prep the wheels and add weight.

If you want to go the do it all yourself, I'm sending you PM, that will help a lot.

 

[IAE Racing]

Plus tungsten for weight. The graphite with moly like DD4H sells, is better. I've heard an older scout parent in our pack comment about the wheel shave, generly considered junk here. he said he ruind more wheels than he improved. If you can buy then buy here. Plus the stuff Sondo is sending you is good stuff.

 

[92hatchattack]

The easiest thing to do if you don't have a lot of tools is to buy a pre-drilled block from DD4H and cheetah 2.0 wheels. You will kill the competition!!!!

Yeah, I just can't get on board when it comes to pre fabbed parts. Feels too much like cheating to me. I know I wouldnt want to go up against a perfectly pre made car, and I dont think it would be fare to do that to other scouts. We want to win by ourown hands i guess.

How fast is DD4H shipping? I guess I'll be ordering some wheels polishing stuff and some tungsten. Gotta do some research now about lightening wheels... hope it can be done without a drill press or lathe.

 

[Kinser Racing]

If you're not going to buy lathed wheels, which I think is a mistake, they're official BSA. Don't touch the stock ones, just leave them as they are, other than polishing the bore.

 

[E.T.Racing]

I totally agree with Kinser on this one if you don't buy lathed wheels do not buy or use the wheel shaver they are a pain to use for not much gain.

 

[92hatchattack]

Ok, really trying to come to terms with what to do here. What is the difference between say the cheetah and the dynasty Nitro? I'm guessing the Nitro is a bit closer to stock than the heavily modified cheetah?

And I want an honest response here. You guys dont feel like paying for a nice set of wheels like this is kinda like cheating? LOL, I mean, everything seems to be within the rules but I guess its like paying to win more or less.

What is the chance that I buy a set of nice wheels for $35 and mess them up trying to polish the bore?

Thanks guys!

 

[K-Racing]

If your afraid you will ruin wheels polishing them, you can pay DD4H (John) to do it for you. It's an option when you buy the wheels. Just have to pick if your running graphite or oil. I've done it when I first started racing. It's a excellent option. And you know that a pure professional is doing it right.

 

[AC Designs]

I run the Nitros on my sons car. Won Pack, Districts last year. SO this year I bought another set of Nitros I had John do the wheel prep for me. You can go to his store online and buy them already preped. They are nice wheel and fast. To be honest I think they are better than the Cheatha's.

 

[92hatchattack]

So while I am letting this wheel thing rumble through my brain, How do I go about getting our car alligned without the use of special equipment? I dont have access to a drill press. It seems its rather hard to build a competative car yourself without owning a machine shop!

Is there a way to do this by eye? Some kind of a gauge?

There is so much different info out there its hard to wrap my head around. This is all my fault really. I should have been researching this for moneths, but now our race is 2 weeks away and I havent ordered or researched anything yet. Blah.

 

[bracketracer]

Goatboy was selling a drill fixture you could use with a pin vise or a hand drill to get the rear alignment right on. You might try pm'ing him to see if he has any more. With you being tight on time, you might be better off to buy the DD4H parts ready to go. A block with pre drilled holes and slots added (if you're required to have slots) and a set of wheels. That would give you enough time to polish the axles and sand, paint, and assemble.

 

[92hatchattack]

Well, I went ahead and ordered the dynasty nitro wheels worked with the bore polished. Also got myself 4oz of tungsten cubes, and 1 oz of putty. Got myself an axle polishing kit and graphite from him too. I hope this stuff pays off.

I did not want to order a pre drilled block because our rules specificaly state BSA block, axles, and wheels must be use. I feel ok using the nitro wheels as they are stated to be worked BSA wheels which seems to be within out rules.

Now I have to consider the alignment stuff. To be honest with you guys we have taken first place in our age group two years in a row now, and second in district last year.... all without any alignment tools and aparently running the car backwards! But these races were too close and we still need more of an edge. I guess for next year I should be looking to borrow a drill press and get something like the Silver bullet for proper holes and alignment?

Is there any guide or tips for the idiot that has to try and align his car by sight only?

 

[Quicktimederby]

If you are using a bent axle for the front dominate wheel so you can adjust for rail running, just use the slots. With just three wheels touching all you need to make sure is that the rears are on the same line, with the slots you know they are. You can try and install them on a cant, just make sure you don't bent a axle trying to install them straight rear axles are what you want.

 

[92hatchattack]

Ok, you lost me just a little. Let me get this straight. Rail running and 3 wheel running are totaly different beast right? Building a rail runner is best, but having only 3 wheels touching is still better than just 4 wheels straight on the ground with no cant, correct?

Crap. im off to read more about this stuff. Seems the alignment is the hardest part with the most amount of viewpoints. Who would have thought that building a wooden car that rolls down would be so darn complicated.