Newbie Recommendations?

[HippoHero]

After I purchased the tools I found this site and have found a ton of useful information. Thanks for building such an awesome community.

I am hoping that you can help guide me prior to me starting this journey.

Here is an overview of what we have learned from reading, watching videos and then finding this site. We are open to suggestions and I want to help my son have the best odds of learning different processes as well as taking first place in his scout derby. Our derby rules are really relaxed but we do have people in the group that are pretty competitive. The only rules are the ones that came in the standard scout PD kit.

Here is our plan of attack:

Axles

• Lightly Grind off the burs and crimp marks using a file + drill press
• Use the DW axle press to square up the axle and round it
• Put the axle back into the drill press and sand with 400/600/800/1200/2000/3000/ diamond polish on the axle shaft and the underside of the head
• Cone the axle head using the DW axle press (Would you recommend this step)?

Wheels

• Use a wheel turning mandrel in the drill press and a sanding block, smooth the outside of the wheel + inside rim of wheel with wet sandpaper 400/600/800/1200/2000/3000/ diamond polish
• Use the Pro hub tool to smooth the wheel bore as well as cone the bore
• Use the Pro hub shaver tool to square the outside bore on the wheel

Body

• Use drill station to drill canted 3 degree axle holes in the rear using #43 carbide bit. We were going to by the Silver bullet pro but they were out of stock.
• Use the GB drill station to drill 2 straight axles in the front. Use the DW axle bender pro to bend one of the axles for steering. (Any pointers on this part would be appreciated).
• Cut the derby body down using a table saw and guide and then plane down to ¼” - I’m not sure if ¼” is right here with the canted rear wheels but I will determine once we drill them out. Any recommendation here is appreciated
• Cut a pocket slot in the bottom of the car for the tungsten weights to go.

We also have the Woodland Scenics ultra graphite that we were going to pack the wheels with and then spin the wheels a few times. What else would you recommend here?

Question

• Would you do anything different from the above? We are open to learning which is why we are here.
• I have watched bulldog racings video on alignment for the car so that is what we are going to try for alignment on this car.

Thanks for any guidance and recommendations.

 

[txchemist]

Yikes!!! This happens quite often, but super hard to combine many inferior steps into a fast car.
I will give you just a small example: The raw wheel with a good prep and a TX axle will be faster than what you will end up with from all your wheel steps.
You also need to know what is getting by inspect and winning races at your pack. It might be eye opening what past winners actually ran- aftermarket wheels & axles are typical even in packs that say not to.

 

[HippoHero]

Ha, there is a lot of information out there and it is hard to say what is valid and what is marketing. So a couple of questions.
1. "Yikes!!!" Is that in reference to my entire thought process or just a couple of pieces?
2. When you say "inferior steps" are you referring to just the axle prep or everything listed above? Do you feel like my prepping of the raw wheel is sufficient or can you recommend a "good prep" tutorial/video?

 

[txchemist]

Ha, there is a lot of information out there and it is hard to say what is valid and what is marketing. So a couple of questions.
1. "Yikes!!!" Is that in reference to my entire thought process or just a couple of pieces?
2. When you say "inferior steps" are you referring to just the axle prep or everything listed above? Do you feel like my prepping of the raw wheel is sufficient or can you recommend a "good prep" tutorial/video?

OK, take a look at this videohttp://derbydad4hire.com/Black-Ice-Extreme-Wheel-Bore-Polishing-Kit-POL-KW.htm
You will see both the product and the best way to do the process for a fast wheel.

 

[HippoHero]

Thanks for the video - it is very helpful. I am also seeing the reference to Red Rocket. I had seen that in the forums but couldn't find any info on it without the context that the video provides. I'll be picking us up some of the wheel polish. Do you have any recommendations on our plan for the body of the car?

 

[txchemist]

Thanks for the video - it is very helpful. I am also seeing the reference to Red Rocket. I had seen that in the forums but couldn't find any info on it without the context that the video provides. I'll be picking us up some of the wheel polish. Do you have any recommendations on our plan for the body of the car?

I will admit to a bias on body style. I do not know how many bodies you have ever made, but for a first time racer, I would just put straight axles in the front and see where your car rolls. It will likely roll to the right or roll to the left, but not straight ahead. This is perfect. then drill another hole slightly higher on the side across from the roll direction for the raised wheel.
I let the Cubs drill 4 holes, two on each side one right above the other and swap out axles until they get a good drift on 3 wheels without messing with a bent axle. The typical Pack track will do a number on your bent axle and you will get slower than if you had not tried it.
You might consider a plug'n'play block first time.
For a first time builder I recommend just a cut out on the back, and bars and plates to get to 5 oz. Use very strong double sided tape or wood glue or epoxy to secure the weights, but this is way easier than cutting weight pockets. The lower design uses just low cost tungsten plates.

 

[HippoHero]

Have you noticed a time difference having the weight behind the axle vs in front of it? Genius idea btw!

 

[SuperSlow]

If you are gonna use stock axles i would consider not taking a file to the shaft. I would remove the flashing under the axle head and stop there. Just leave the crimp marks and polish right over them. I would also consider skipping the 400 and 600, and start with 800 or maybe even 1000 grit.

I used the exact process you are planning on my first couple cars when i started out. I was so cought up in achieving the finish i wanted that i didnt realize i was removing way too much material reducing the diameter of the shaft. It is not hard to over do it with bsa axles and i have even done it with the revell axles as well.

It may seem like it doesnt make sense but your times will prove it.

Just something to keep in mind

 

[SuperSlow]

Keep a pen and note pad close and take time to read everything you can here, everything you seek is here waiting to be uncovered and if you cant find something the guys here will point you in the direction. These guys are the Real Deal, if they tell u something that is the bottom line. They know what they are doing

 

[TRE]

Use the revell axles

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

We've all been through what you are going through now. We have all bought the same list of tools and went through this learning curve. What you have listed may work for a scout race unless you run into someone like the guys on this board.

If you can get your hands on one of Derby Dad's videos it will greatly reduce your learning curve. The videos are also under the premium tab.

Tre's suggestion of the revell axles is a good one too if you cannot use aftermarket axles. You can get them at Hobby Lobby.

Good luck.

 

[HippoHero]

I'll return the pro hub tools then because it sounds like no body uses them; Should I return the axle bender too if I bought the GB drill fixture? From what I'm reading I wont need it either. - does that sound right? I'll pick up some revel axles this coming week and I'm going to order the black ice polish kit. Thanks again for all of the help !

 

[TRE]

if you want to run with the best throw out the derby worx tools

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

Definitely lose the wheel shaver! And don't tune on a treadmill! LOL
I've done it.....

 

[HippoHero]

Just spent hours scouring through the videos in the paid section but the one thing I’m not sure on. How thick do you want the finished body to be?

 

[TRE]

1/4 inch if you are using tungsten

 

[SuperSlow]

Pretty much 100% of people are going to tell you thinner the better "thin to win". As Tre said most people do 5/16 - 1/4 inch. At the same time you want to get your body as light as possible so you can concentrate your weight where you want it. There are several ways to do this and different builders do it different ways. Some people build ladder bodys, some people cut out the center and weight pockets and cover with a bass wood veneer or a vinyl wrap or even shipping labels or tape. Some people cut their bodys 5/16 thick and route out the under side and weight pockets. This is what you will have to watch videos on and see what style works for you and maybe more importantly what tools you have available.

 

[HippoHero]

I am going to try out the bulldog method with the jig. Made plenty of sense and was an amazing video.

 

[HippoHero]

I polished my wheels last night with the black ice and upon inspection there are scratch marks in the wheel bore (I’m assuming from the pipe cleaner). I thought they were twisted up right enough... do I need to scrap these wheels? Are they fine? or repolish with #1? I’m just afraid of opening the bore and making the wheels sloppy.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

It depends on how competitive the racers are. For a Scout race, I would polish them up as best I can and race them. Find the worst of the four wheels and use it as the raised wheel. For a league race, it's only usable as a raised wheel; otherwise I would discard it. As a side note, I would consider finding other ways of polishing a bore without using Q Tip stalks or pipe cleaners. I do not put either in my bores for any reason...