Oil or not to oil?

[Reedy26]

So last year we did graphite. Dominated the pack race and ended up getting second at district by about 2-3 car lengths. Some of this was due to my misunderstanding of the rules and we did not turn the wheels at all. I just polished the bores, packed them with graphite and went racing.

So this year we want to maximize our performance. Wheels will be turned and while reading the rules came across these excerpts regarding axle lube. My interpretation is that we can use oil.

My understanding from previous post's is that our council uses a modified version of the mid america rules.

 

[DerbyDoctor]

If those are the only rules regarding axle lubrication than it appears you could use it, however, the common consensus is that unless it says you can use oil or you know that others are using it, you should probably ask those in charge of the derby if it's legal, to avoid a race day issue and an upset kid.

 

[Racing358t]

I'd use oil if those were my rules. I wouldn't even ask. There is nothing in those rules that says you can't and they imply that you can. I can guarntee others are gonna use oil with that ruleset. I understand verifying but if I verified and was told no but then later found out others were that would be a bigger mess. IMO, there are no implied rules.

Scott

 

[Mojo Racing]

Ask.

That first pic is the bottom of the page that tells all the things that you cannot have on your car.

 

[Loud2ns]

Ask.

That first pic is the bottom of the page that tells all the things that you cannot have on your car.

I agree, ask. It says oil in the list of prohibited items.

 

[Racing358t]

It has in parenthesis "Other than AXLE lubrication" in the same sentence. To me that says it is ok as long as the oil is ONLY being used as lube in the bore.

Just clarifying my reasoning before it gets twisted into something it isn't

Scott

 

[Deckard]

I first read that sentence as they allow oil. But the second read through made me think that the phrase in parens(other than axle lube) is in reference to powders. And since oil is spelled out I think it wouldn't be allowed. But I think you should ask.

 

[Loud2ns]

It has in parenthesis "Other than AXLE lubrication" in the same sentence. To me that says it is ok as long as the oil is ONLY being used as lube in the bore.

Just clarifying my reasoning before it gets twisted into something it isn't

Scott

Would you use wet paint for axle lubrication? Lol
They should make their intentions more clear. That would remove all doubt.

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

In all this funny thing is most times they are banning oil for the fear of a car dripping something like WD40 all over the track when a properly oiled car using the appropriate PWD oil doesn’t even show there’s oil on it.

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

In all this funny thing is most times they are banning oil for the fear of a car dripping something like WD40 all over the track when a properly oiled car using the appropriate PWD oil doesn’t even show there’s oil on it.

Yeah that is the point of view of our District Pinewood Derby Chairman. The guy ran the races for 25 years. I use to run District race for last 3 years and changed the rule thus allowing oil and OMG this guy had a fit. Since the previous rules had been around for 25 years he seen no point in changing them. The whole thing caused such a fuss that eventually the District gave the race back to this guy...telling me they had to change District Positions every 3 years. I asked where in the Official Rules and Regulations it stated that(as it doesn't) and was told those Official Rules are just loose guidelines....wonder if national BSA feels that they are lol

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

All I know is this... after years of reading these Scout rule arguments and horror stories I am glad we only race Awana. Lol

 

[Mojo Racing]

take a pic of the Krytox oil they sell in your local scout shop and show it to him. Then ask WHY they would sell that if it was not something that is coming around these days.

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

take a pic of the Krytox oil they sell in your local scout shop and show it to him. Then ask WHY they would sell that if it was not something that is coming around these days.

I did that...I even surveyed the other Districts in our Council. Some allowed oil, some didn't either because they never heard of it or out of ignorance of the proper use of oil wouldn't allow it.

 

[Mojo Racing]

they talk about the oil messing up the track... take a pic of the graphite on the track AFTER CLEANING and show them... then point out they have no leg to stand on

 

[Racing358t]

Would you use wet paint for axle lubrication? Lol
They should make their intentions more clear. That would remove all doubt.

Not wet but dried Maybe? Depends what the paint has in it and how hard it cures?

I understand your sarcasm though. And I chuckled at it. LOL

But it also says oil right next to paint. I agree that they should clarify better but do not agree that oil is not allowed as shown in the pics of the rules here in this thread. Maybe there is more somewhere else in the rules. But, I was deciphering the rules as shown not the intended unsaid rules.

You coming to APR in a couple weeks?

Scott

 

[Loud2ns]

Not wet but dried Maybe? Depends what the paint has in it and how hard it cures?

I understand your sarcasm though. And I chuckled at it. LOL

But it also says oil right next to paint. I agree that they should clarify better but do not agree that oil is not allowed as shown in the pics of the rules here in this thread. Maybe there is more somewhere else in the rules. But, I was deciphering the rules as shown not the intended unsaid rules.

You coming to APR in a couple weeks?

Scott

Hmmm, how hard it would cure.

I'm glad you saw through the little poke.

Not sure if we'll be back or not. I was intending on sending in June to the finals..... not sure.

 

[Charles Studer]

Dry powders (except for lubrication)

That statement is contained by the commas

No oil, as written

Play dumb and ask for lubrication only.....not as an oil stain for the body

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

Dry powders (except for lubrication)

That statement is contained by the commas

No oil, as written

Play dumb and ask for lubrication only.....not as an oil stain for the body

I agree with this .....not being an English teacher and not fully understanding all the rules of punctuation, I read the rules and was confused at first. I reread them several times and it was still not clear to my simple mind.

The phrase listed in number 4. " or powders of any kind (except for lubrication)" is at the end of a sentence of items that is contained in items that are from Section 2.9.

Rule Section 2.9 is a larger list of items that are Prohibited.

So I believe the way it is written means that you can not use powders anywhere on the car except for axle lubrication. So no graphite on the body and no graphite on the wheels? Clear as mud?

Sometimes I think I read things the way I would like them to read, so as to create a possible advantage. I think this might be one of those times?

There is NO doubt that it could be written differently and be much clearer to the average person. Especially for a simple mind like mine!!!

 

[Chief]

Liquid = oil, powder = graphite AND IT SAYS....."OTHER THAN in axle lubrication"!
Run oil the way you have learned from the forum, and win

 

[Reedy26]

Found this little section as well. However, I do not read this a oil is not allowed as you are not going to spray on a powder. I know they have at issues in the past at the high school with graphite making a mess and I think alot of the wording is to address that issue. For example we can not lube the axles at all at the council race.