Pinewood Parachute Racing

[Mojo Racing]

Soooooo...

Last night, I met with a bunch of the Cub Masters and Committee Members for my district about the upcoming year's district pinewood derby rules.

One guy, I swear, wants the rules to go back to what they say in the box the kids get their cars in.

When the discussion about axles came up, I proposed that we open the rules up to include all axles as long as they were nail type axles. He freaked ! He said this is getting away from the basics of pinewood derby, and this is not fair to race all types of axles. So, I countered by holding up a Revell axle and DD4H 92, only showing the points... and I asked the group... can you tell me which axle is which? They all just looked at me... and took their best guesses... (50/50). Then I told them, that with the grooved axles, they cannot discern between one or the other without taking the car apart because the difference is within the area covered by the wheel.

This guy went off again, saying that it wasn't fair to have to pay for axles to be competitive, so I said... okay... at least let the boys groove them... This guy was like a super ball that bounces off the roof a dozen times before it starts settling down. He was like... Most of these boys cannot groove an axle, they don't know how, and a lot don't have the tools. He then stated that the nails in the cars have to be used... I was like... the cars or can they use the Revell axles that are in the wheel tubes? because they can be bought at the scout store, and they don't have crimps.... he goes... Either / or... it don't matter, all my boys know how to remove the crimps...

I was like... wait... ALL your boys now how to chuck up a nail, and put a file to it to remove the crimp (and I held my hand flat)... he was like "Yeah!" I quickly said... but they don't know how to turn the file vertical or at a 45 degree angle and cut a groove? REALLY?

I think this guy would rather the races be run with parachutes and pinwheels attached to the cars to replicate the times from the 50's.

I was ready to choke this guy... It was funny... at the end of the meeting (held in my shop, at my house, so we could see different cars run) everybody thanked me for hosting and helping, he just walked out... what a punk...

I am going to challenge him to a pinks race at the District race!

 

[Vitamin K]

Our District recently decided to relax axle rules, primarily because we have no way of verifying who is using what.

I wish there were a cost-effective way to provide decent, straight, round axles to all of the boys, to level the playing field from the beginning.

Doesn't 5Kids provide (pre-polished?) Awana axles for all the boys in his Pack, or something like that?

 

[LightninBoy]

I've never had to endure one of these debates ... I can only imagine how frustrating it might be. One thing I would do, however, if I were in such a position, is attempt to establish some tenets / founding principles before going through specific rules.

For example, if you introduced a tenet that a rule must be enforceable without teardown. I think you'd have no trouble getting everyone to agree with that. Then, when you suggest relaxing the axle rules, there really isn't any debate as soon as you establish the fact that "no grooves / no aftermarket axle" rules cannot be enforced.

Just a thought. I have no idea if it would work or not - a lot of people are not susceptive to logical arguments. But I'd like to think that most of the opposition to more lenient rule sets is based on an urge to keep the event fair and kid oriented and they are under the mistaken belief that strict rules accomplish this. By agreeing to tenets you can first establish that everyone is working towards the same goal. Again, the enforceability tenet is a good example because everyone should agree that a rule that cannot be enforced is not fair to the kids who follow the rules.

 

[LightninBoy]

Our District recently decided to relax axle rules, primarily because we have no way of verifying who is using what.

I wish there were a cost-effective way to provide decent, straight, round axles to all of the boys, to level the playing field from the beginning.

Doesn't 5Kids provide (pre-polished?) Awana axles for all the boys in his Pack, or something like that?

Various vendors sell zinc "speed axles" that are excellent and very very cheap. The Awana axles also tend to be better than the BSA kit axles. I think these are good options.

 

[Vitamin K]

Our District recently decided to relax axle rules, primarily because we have no way of verifying who is using what.

I wish there were a cost-effective way to provide decent, straight, round axles to all of the boys, to level the playing field from the beginning.

Doesn't 5Kids provide (pre-polished?) Awana axles for all the boys in his Pack, or something like that?

Various vendors sell zinc "speed axles" that are excellent and very very cheap. The Awana axles also tend to be better than the BSA kit axles. I think these are good options.

Yeah, I'm aware of the zinc "speed axles" as well. I like the Awana axles because they're thicker (somewhere around .092") which seems like it would compete better against some of the fatter racing axles that some might choose to use.

 

[5KidsRacing]

Doesn't 5Kids provide (pre-polished?) Awana axles for all the boys in his Pack, or something like that?

I bought them one year for my pack when evolution had them on sale for like 14 cents a set.... In hind sight I should have bought every set he had...

 

[Vitamin K]

Doesn't 5Kids provide (pre-polished?) Awana axles for all the boys in his Pack, or something like that?

I bought them one year for my pack when evolution had them on sale for like 14 cents a set.... In hind sight I should have bought every set he had...

Dang, talk about an abundance. I totally would have. /images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif

Somebody once said to me that Awana axles were probably some kind of hinge pin. Do they custom manufacture them, or are they a standard part for something else?

 

[Mojo Racing]

Then, when you suggest relaxing the axle rules, there really isn't any debate as soon as you establish the fact that "no grooves / no aftermarket axle" rules cannot be enforced.

Yeah... Totally tried that... He said... well... we will threaten to tear the cars down but wont actually do it... I was like... isn't that what we do now and they know it?

If you aren't going to tear them down, you cannot have the rule.

At least they allowed the rule for opening up to grooving the axles... there is a max diameter of 0.091 though... I was like, are you going to have a caliper that will fit in a 0.015 gap to check that? LOL

I was just laughing at the end. I think I upset him. Every stupid thing he came up with, I had something for him to come back with... he was fuming, and threatening to boycott the district race. I looked at the guy heading up the meeting and said quietly that it will run smoother at least.

Crazy stuff.

 

[BulldogRacing]

This guy was like a super ball that bounces off the roof a dozen times before it starts settling down.

This is having me laugh so hard, I can just see it!!! So this year I am going to hold the Oregon State Pine Wood Derby. I'm going to promote it and try and build it. We have good local interest but I will open it up to the state, and bring the winning cars to nationals. I will create a web page explaining how the national race is held and we will mirror those rules so the cars will be race ready for me to bring to Nebraska. I ran the district race last year, the district was going to appoint me a committee but never did, so I wrote the rules just like MA's. I had PWD building nights and taught these families how to build fast cars, I offered free bodies and Revell axles, directed them to Johns and promoted everything so if they built a fast car it could compete at the National level, it was too late in the year last year but this year I'll do it in March so the idea will work. I paid for the trophies and a lot of them! I had a few local businesses step up and help with that cost. I will be adding a solenoid gate this year. I guess what I'm saying is build a large event that the packs want to be able to compete at with out re-building cars. You'll always have the bouncing ball but if the trophies are big enough they will attend! P.S my free bodies were the pile of bodies that did not make the NPWDRL standards cut!

 

[Mojo Racing]

I guess what I'm saying is build a large event that the packs want to be able to compete at with out re-building cars. You'll always have the bouncing ball but if the trophies are big enough they will attend! P.S my free bodies were the pile of bodies that did not make the NPWDRL standards cut!

That MIGHT be the idea Dawg ! You know... I only got back into the scouting to help these people run a better pinewood derby and to work with the Boy Scouts as a mentor on their trail to Eagle Scout.

I don't know that I would be the one wanting to bring all of this together, but I would help if someone here really wanted to do that outside of Scouts.

You know what really torqued me after thinking about it..... The guy who brought me into this was the one who asked me to draw up the rules.... He called and warned me about this "doink" who was coming and said he had a bunch of issues and was ready to fight about it. He was just warning me so we would be on the same page... Then when the first vote came along, he jumped on the other side... I was less than happy about that... I looked up at him (He is 6' 8") and was like... Dude ! WTH?!?!?!? What happened to "Be on the same page?"

They keep this up, I will just help the boys who come asking me for the help... and they will be the ones walking out the door with the trophies.

I don't know what to do.... These guys really spun me up last night... I was hoping the District Executive and the District Commissioner were gonna be there, but they decided to have another meeting..

Oh well...

And yeah... I have a bunch of bodies for the boys (You know... for the ones who cant afford to buy a PWD kit.... I don't know how many times that came up) that are from drills that I didn't like.

 

[Kinser Racing]

That seems to be the whole world today Mojo! I honestly think people are freaking brain dead or something. They have no logic!

 

[Mojo Racing]

Exactly Chris ! He is a professor at one of the local universities, but logic escapes him.