The next level!!

[Quicktimederby]

Well last night I spent about 3 hr's on one set of wheels!! Man do I wish I had a lathe. I have been happy for the most part with the ways my cars have been performing but am wanting a class win! I remember growing up parents and coach's telling me if you want to win you got to put in the time. I hope that is the same with PWD racing. The funny thing is at times in this hobby it seems like the less time I spend on the car the faster it goes. If that's the case I just killed my car!!

 

[5KidsRacing]

You first have to understand what makes a wheel fast …. Then it is just a learning curve figuring out how to get the lathe to cut the wheel like that. The wheel rules at the NPWDRL really allow a racer to be creative and try new things.

It’s amazing how fast we are running these days. When I started league racing 3 years ago most guys were still running graphite and JB, DD, WM, CAM & CGS were blowing everybody away by .030, .040, .050 with oil. These days there are more cars contending for the top spot and the racing is much more exciting. Having all the Nationals titles all go to different racers is just incredible and it shows how this sport has changed for the better. Information sharing is the key to making the pwd community strong and to keep it growing. John knows this all too well… I hope that the day I tear down my track I have left something positive for the pwd community, but to be honest I just don’t know.

 

[Quicktimederby]

I agree completely!! My first few races were, well lets just say less than satisfying. But because of the help and guidance of the the guys here I usually fairly happy with the race results.

I do not cut my own wheels, I leave that to the wheel master! (DD4H) But I do have a question and I am curious to hear your guys opinion on this and why you think that way.

When cutting your SS wheels getting them down to the 2.0 gram limit, where do you remove the weight? Hub area, middle of the wheel, inside of the outside diameter, or the outside of the OD?

 

[5KidsRacing]

If you have some DD cheetah's then you already know that answer. If you don't then you should get some/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif Personally I havent seen any of John's 2.0 gram wheels, but I am sure we cut them similar.

 

[Cam-Car]

I make my own SS wheels and have been fairly competitive with them. To date I have taken weight off the outside of the wheel and also the inside of the outside diameter until I get it down to 2 grams. I have just made a new set of wheels that I haven't tested yet, but this time I took more weight from the inside of the outside diameter until the wheel was down to 1.8 grams and then added .2 grams to the hub area. It makes sense to me that getting the weight off of the ouside area of the wheel should make for a faster wheel.

 

[Quicktimederby]

That's a awesome idea of the remove more from the outside than adding to the hub area! In theory that should make for a faster accelerating wheel, just hope that the faster acceleration is enough to hold of the bottom end pull of a heavier OD wheel. Man I wish I had the means to take a month or so off and go hang out with John and just test all these different variations! Any other ideas out there?

I make my own SS wheels and have been fairly competitive with them. To date I have taken weight off the outside of the wheel and also the inside of the outside diameter until I get it down to 2 grams. I have just made a new set of wheels that I haven't tested yet, but this time I took more weight from the inside of the outside diameter until the wheel was down to 1.8 grams and then added .2 grams to the hub area. It makes sense to me that getting the weight off of the outside area of the wheel should make for a faster wheel.

 

[Quicktimederby]

OK here's another wheel question. This one applies to all wheels except the SS. Is it best to make the wheels as lite as possible, or is it better to leave some weight on it say like in the hub?

 

[5KidsRacing]

Joel, You want them light as possible without making them so thin that they flex and loose speed. If you are using BSA wheels you have to watch what you do around the hub... depending on how you cut out the second step you can make the hub area too thin with stockers. So I guess what I am saying is this... You want to remove as much weight as possible from the outside to the inside without sacrificing the wheel integrity. That is for any class.

On a seperate subject I think what CamCar has said here is interesting. I see that the "No Filling of any wheel surface with any type of material" rule has been eliminated when we went to 2.0 gram wheels. I didn't notice that before, but if it is true that you can add material like that then that opens up alot more possibilities.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

The question now becomes as an organization, do we want to allow foreign material to be added to weight a wheel? It sure does give more room for experimentation but I am not sure it will make much difference.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

After more thought into this I think the rules must be amended. Dennis did find a loophole that would create a serious disadvantage for those who can't cut their own wheels. The purpose for the 2 gram rule was to allow some modification and have a true way to judge a wheel. Under the Dennis rule I could make a 1.3 gram wheel and use say... some metal tube to insert over the hub to bring it back to weight, reverse the wheels and probably drop another .01 off my time. If this type of wheel wasn't made to everyone it would kill the class. I apologize Dennis but we are going to have to make an adjustment to the rules unless there is a league wide agreement to keep this legal. I don't want to discourage our new racers.

Let's stick to just truing up the crappy wheels.

 

[Downslope]

If it was up to me i would say no adding to the wheel I know it limits creativity but it also prevents the nascar rules where the person with the most gagits and tech and funds is unbeatable. Just saying

 

[5KidsRacing]

I also agree with not allowing additional material to be added. If someone wanted to use nail polish or something to balance them or to mark them I don't think that is an issue. That being said I think balancing is a waste of time. I have never balanced a wheel...

 

[Guest]

I think absolutely there should be no material added to a wheel!!! We need to stop trying to circumvent, finding a loophole, or bending the rules. I can assure I have a wheel ready that will mow down the field if it comes to that and it follows the rules. I am for keeping a level of conformity to some respect so that every one has an equal chance for a win. The win at any cost mentality has a very bad effect on our sport and is very ugly to witness as the nonsense going on in the last race and at the last dash for cash clearly shows. Rules MUST be followed and those breaking them Must be delt with! Just my 2 cents.

 

[zeebzob]

I love the way Dennis was thinking outside the box. Very creative. I personally believe in that kind of creative thinking. However, in this case I don't think its right for this class. Leave that to the street pro, eliminator and unlimited classes. I agree that the win at all cost mentality can effectivly ruin somethings that could be great...the old doorslammr class comes to mind.

 

[Guest]

I think absolutely there should be no material added to a wheel!!! We need to stop trying to circumvent, finding a loophole, or bending the rules. I can assure I have a wheel ready that will mow down the field if it comes to that and it follows the rules. I am for keeping a level of conformity to some respect so that every one has an equal chance for a win. The win at any cost mentality has a very bad effect on our sport and is very ugly to witness as the nonsense going on in the last race and at the last dash for cash clearly shows. Rules MUST be followed and those breaking them Must be delt with! Just my 2 cents.

What went on at the Dash for Cash race that wasn't Kosher? I didn't run at that race and this is the first I have heard mention of something shady going on?

 

[Spirit Racing]

I think we should get a vote going. I was getting excited about working on some SS mod wheels!!!! However I agree I think this class needs to stay somewhat pure , with basic wheels. Mod stuff should stay in the Street Pro class !! I think where it's at now allows John to identify legal wheels more easily. And it won't scare off the newer guys that want to start racing in the league. I think the rules need to be amended in this class. But man would have been fun to play with some wheel mods !!!!!!!!!......SPIRIT......

 

[Quicktimederby]

Oh crap!!! Dennis is going to hate me! Having known Dennis (Cam Car) since I started racing I truly believe he wasn't looking for a loop hole in the rules to give him a unfair advantage. The fact of the matter is that we all want to win, we ALL want to find that one thing that can take us to the top of the class. And most of us do it with integrity and following the rules as out lined. I love the thinking Dennis.

The whole reason for the questions was to instigate outside the box thinking. Sometimes what someone has thought all a long has been over looked by every one else. This is why I would like every one whether they cut their own wheels or buy to put in their 2 cents if they have a idea or theory on what could possibly work.

 

[Cam-Car]

I have no problem at all with amending the rules so that no material can be added back to the wheel. I agree that it would probably hurt the class and cause more problems. Just so you know, I have never run the type of wheels that I was experimenting with in any of our races. Rahall seems to indicate that some rules may have been broken and some kind of action needs to be taken. As far as I know, everything has been on the up and up.

I still plan on testing these wheels to see if it would have made any difference and I will let you know.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

Cam Car is the very last person that would ever cheat. He is at the forefront of advancement and creatively making the cars faster. Always has been and he has taught me as much as anyone ever has. I am very curious to see what the difference would be also.

As far as the shady stuff, the main thing that has come about is someone trying to apply a tacky surface to the front of their car and then press it against the pins when staging it. The telltale sign of this going on is if the pins fall over when someone is staging. I know we all want to believe that everyone is above board and can go by the honor code but it just isn't true. 99% are honest but there is always the 1% sneaking around. I will say this, it is no regular participant of the NPWDRL doing these things. The other issue would be excessive handling of the cars in between races. My first ever big live event at Lima, I witnessed somebody stick a weight to the bottom of their car before a race. It woke me up real quick. They still didn't win but it was a shock. Like I have said all along, we are nearing a point that all the shadys that used to foul up our sport are nearly gone. It is evident because of the large numbers we are getting. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

 

[Guest]

Cam Car is the very last person that would ever cheat. He is at the forefront of advancement and creatively making the cars faster. Always has been and he has taught me as much as anyone ever has. I am very curious to see what the difference would be also.

As far as the shady stuff, the main thing that has come about is someone trying to apply a tacky surface to the front of their car and then press it against the pins when staging it. The telltale sign of this going on is if the pins fall over when someone is staging. I know we all want to believe that everyone is above board and can go by the honor code but it just isn't true. 99% are honest but there is always the 1% sneaking around. I will say this, it is no regular participant of the NPWDRL doing these things. The other issue would be excessive handling of the cars in between races. My first ever big live event at Lima, I witnessed somebody stick a weight to the bottom of their car before a race. It woke me up real quick. They still didn't win but it was a shock. Like I have said all along, we are nearing a point that all the shadys that used to foul up our sport are nearly gone. It is evident because of the large numbers we are getting. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

I would also think, if a previous record was shattered that might also be a tell tale sign? I know how hard it is to set a record and when they get broken, it is most times only by a thou or two.