What is fast?

[BigKat]

Evening gents, long time lurker, first post. Learned more here in the last year than ever did the prior 4 years of feeding this addiction. If only I found it, Black Ice and ZF graphite sooner, but I digress..

Boy won Pack this past weekend (yay team!, back to back I will add) and feel his car has a real chance to win Districts. We have never finished higher than 5th in three prior cracks. I don't want to say this car is unbeatable with our rules, but I do feel it is awfully close given what I have seen in past district races.

This misplaced optimism, over confidence and sense of pride has me thinking, what is fast?

With that said, with our rules, how fast do you think you could run? What would you consider good? Excellent?

Here are the basic rules:

BSA Kit wheels and axles only. No subs
No wheel manipulation (like Box Stock)
Bore polishing is okay.
No bushings, washers, wheel covers, springs, bearings.
Must use axle slots already in block and maintain wheelbase (4 3/8")
Graphite only for lube.
No oils, greases or silicone sprays
3 wheels touching.

Then the usual other stuff. 7"-2 3/4"- 5 oz., but this the meat. Assume no fenders, I've never seen them at districts (of course now there will be 4 fender cars and we'll get smoked).

We run on a 42' Best Track. Usually looks like a nice drive through the Himalayas, but my goal here is to see what you think is a good average time. I see NPWDRL times for Box Stock at or around 3.00, but that is oil and extended wheelbases and don't feel that is comparable.

Thanks in advance for your reply, I'll share what he did later. Will likely try a Box Stock race later this year. With my boy about to crossover, the PWD withdrawal will start early. That, and I have enough supplies to make 20 more cars.

Thanks- BK

 

[CivilWarTalk]

I'd say 3.02 without fenders and 3.0 with fenders would be near the current limits with the restrictions you have.

Do you have a time from your Pack race?

 

[BigKat]

Thanks CWT. Averaged 3.051, but on the third heat the car hit a seam and skipped (was doing that all day in that lane), resulting in a 3.083 bringing the average up. Taking that out, it would have averaged 3.040, fastest run was 3.027. I inspected the FDW and didn't see any marks or damage from the "skip", Plan to just add more graphite and clean the wheels before districts.

CoM at 0.772", rear axles are straight, no cant or angle (I didn't feel comfortable attempting this with slots). Steer set at just under 5" over 4' (originally at 4', but when we had a chance to test at check-in, I increased it to improve stability, and yes I brought my tuning board to the check-in). Obviously room for improvement, but I tend to do things over the top and wanted to make sure we had a stable car, which we did and it proved out.

Thanks again, I feel pretty good about those times given the pack track and what I expect to see at districts. Last year I went to "improve" the car between races and basically ruined it thinking "this and that" are a good idea. That day, after a miserable showing, I found this site and went into tirade of profanity in my mind and a week long depression realizing I screwed up. This year, just lube it back up, clean the wheels and go race. You live and learn,

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

I would say 3.02 on the NPWDRL track would be a good guess for a fast racer.

 

[Vitamin K]

No subs from the kit axles and wheels? Auuuugh. Don't they realize that really opens up kids to the luck of the draw in terms of the quality of their parts? Also, how in the heck do they plan to enforce that one?

 

[bracketracer]

No subs from the kit axles and wheels? Auuuugh. Don't they realize that really opens up kids to the luck of the draw in terms of the quality of their parts? Also, how in the heck do they plan to enforce that one?

VK, it just says "BSA Kit wheels and axles only", it doesn't say WHICH kit! LOL

 

[BigKat]

Thanks guys. I'll post in March how it did at districts. Going to be a very long month, ha!

 

[jatofau1]

Fast is never fast enough. I am lucky. Our track vendor post and stores all the race times. I just look at his site to see what the fastest times are and tune the cars to be faster than any current or past times.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Pledge on the axles. It's not a lube, oil or spray, it's polish, which is allowed.

 

[Cramjet]

Are you sure district rules are the same as pack rules? If what you listed is your pack rules, then district could be less restrictive.

 

[Rocket car]

Since you have to use the slots. Did you cut off the back of the car and add it to the front? This way the back wheels are all the way in the back and the car will pick up a lot of speed. ( please see avatar)

 

[BigKat]

As to the rules CJ, those are the district rules, but our pack follows them. Our council doesn't have a race, so I looked at the 14 districts in the council to see if different rules. It's all over the map on the wheels, wheelbase, lube, etc. So we are the lucky ones with district rules.

Rocket, I did not lop the back off, but am aware of the technique/benefit. We use a Dremel to shape the car. Tried hand cutting the block early in his cub years, but it never worked out well, so just stuck with just the Dremel and used the block as is.

Pacfan, if there is one thing this forum has taught me is to only use Lemon pledge, Orange pledge will only slow you down.

Districts in 2 weeks. I have begun passing the knowledge down to other cub dads. Mainly the guy who has finished second behind us the last 2 years at pack. Told him if his son beats my son at districts, I plan to take full credit, ha. Also working with our Cubmaster to take over the Pack derby next year. He was all for it. As a result he'll give me the track whenever I want it. I want to refinish it for them. Going to be a fun fall making cars and seeing how fast I can make them.

 

[BigKat]

Well, we finished 4th at Districts. Solid showing. All 4 of our pack's kids made the finals (16 finalists, about 80 cars total). The first place car flew. Track was so slow. Cars were barely breaking the 3.1 sec barrier. Overall was a great season. Be back at it in the fall.....

 

[Crash Enburn]

Congrats!

 

[Dennis]

Thanks CWT. Averaged 3.051, but on the third heat the car hit a seam and skipped (was doing that all day in that lane), resulting in a 3.083 bringing the average up. Taking that out, it would have averaged 3.040, fastest run was 3.027. I inspected the FDW and didn't see any marks or damage from the "skip", Plan to just add more graphite and clean the wheels before districts.

CoM at 0.772", rear axles are straight, no cant or angle (I didn't feel comfortable attempting this with slots). Steer set at just under 5" over 4' (originally at 4', but when we had a chance to test at check-in, I increased it to improve stability, and yes I brought my tuning board to the check-in). Obviously room for improvement, but I tend to do things over the top and wanted to make sure we had a stable car, which we did and it proved out.

Thanks again, I feel pretty good about those times given the pack track and what I expect to see at districts. Last year I went to "improve" the car between races and basically ruined it thinking "this and that" are a good idea. That day, after a miserable showing, I found this site and went into tirade of profanity in my mind and a week long depression realizing I screwed up. This year, just lube it back up, clean the wheels and go race. You live and learn,

Since you have to use the slots. Did you cut off the back of the car and add it to the front? This way the back wheels are all the way in the back and the car will pick up a lot of speed. ( please see avatar)

So just cut off the back of the car a glue it to the front before shaping the car? How close the rear slot do you cut?

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

So just cut off the back of the car a glue it to the front before shaping the car? How close the rear slot do you cut?

Standard position for the rear axle is at 5/8" from the rear.