2016 Pinewood Derby World Championship in Time Square
- Thread starter ScoutRacer
- Start date
Yes, there are updates.
First, that was a long day. They had some technical glitch that killed a lot of time. This event has some real potential, due to the premiere venue in the world if nothing else.
Gotta tighten things up, though.
Anyway, there were 270+ cars, I believe. Long time to check them in.
Check in was fine...they didn't like our inner wheel covers because they couldn't see into the wheel very well, even though they were clear. The super glue does react with the plastic and murks it up a bit. Got through that, no problem.
Check in guy put a magnet on our axle heads (John's new axles) and didn't like that they weren't steel. Asked for a ruling, they let it go. I did mention that their rules clearly state you can buy axles if you like and don't say a thing about the magnet test.
John mentioned some "stealth" 2g wheels going to this race. Don't know who had them, but I decided to go with Rages which are perfectly legal. Could have easily slipped some lighter wheels through (Cheetahs for sure) if we had the notion, with the wheel covers. Might not be able to next year, though.
Lighter wheels wouldn't have caught that one kid, though.
My son ran Pro Stock. He won the "world championship" for Webelos 2. Enormous trophy that we had to lug around NYC the rest of the day, lol.
Made the top 15, went down to the last 4. Car slowed up during that part of the event for some reason. He should have been 2nd or 3rd, but wasn't. There was a Tiger cub who had the fastest (by far) car overall. I knew he was going to win the overall, and he did. Would love to know what was in his car or what he did so much better than we did.
Our fastest time was 3.0000. It was a fun time. Hot, but fun. NYC is just another world.
There were people from 20 states. Cali, Texas, etc. It was a nice way to end his Scout racing career.
First, that was a long day. They had some technical glitch that killed a lot of time. This event has some real potential, due to the premiere venue in the world if nothing else.
Gotta tighten things up, though.
Anyway, there were 270+ cars, I believe. Long time to check them in.
Check in was fine...they didn't like our inner wheel covers because they couldn't see into the wheel very well, even though they were clear. The super glue does react with the plastic and murks it up a bit. Got through that, no problem.
Check in guy put a magnet on our axle heads (John's new axles) and didn't like that they weren't steel. Asked for a ruling, they let it go. I did mention that their rules clearly state you can buy axles if you like and don't say a thing about the magnet test.
John mentioned some "stealth" 2g wheels going to this race. Don't know who had them, but I decided to go with Rages which are perfectly legal. Could have easily slipped some lighter wheels through (Cheetahs for sure) if we had the notion, with the wheel covers. Might not be able to next year, though.
Lighter wheels wouldn't have caught that one kid, though.
My son ran Pro Stock. He won the "world championship" for Webelos 2. Enormous trophy that we had to lug around NYC the rest of the day, lol.
Made the top 15, went down to the last 4. Car slowed up during that part of the event for some reason. He should have been 2nd or 3rd, but wasn't. There was a Tiger cub who had the fastest (by far) car overall. I knew he was going to win the overall, and he did. Would love to know what was in his car or what he did so much better than we did.
Our fastest time was 3.0000. It was a fun time. Hot, but fun. NYC is just another world.
There were people from 20 states. Cali, Texas, etc. It was a nice way to end his Scout racing career.
Fox 5 NY ran a segment about the race last night on the 11 o clock news. They had a few shots of the cars on the table and onemof the heat races and the check in tables.was about a 45 second spot. Said that a first and fifth grader won the 2 divisions, so I guess that was the tiger cub you mentioned
We had a less than pleasant experience at this race yesterday. We had two scouts from our district entered. Two four on the floor cars both stock wheelbase. In the event that both ended up real fast and only one winner would have been possible, we opted to enter the cars in the two separate classes.
The second best of the two was placed in the "Pro Stock" class. Pro stock rules are one wheel raised, modified wheelbase, drill your own holes. The better of the two went to "Stock" as I thought we had a real shot at the win in this class.
There were cars flying everywhere at the end of the track. Runoff management was unacceptable. I had to request a large piece of fabric be place at the end of the runoff to keep the cars from flipping off of the stage onto the concrete. Then there was lane number one on the one track that the faster cars with heavy rear percentage had some issues popping off. At the transition from the incline there was a fairly heavy rise causing issue.
The rules state:
"The slowest time will be dropped and the average of the remaining times will determine the results for each racer."
I am sure that this rule is in place in case there are issues as there were.
Things were looking real good for us in the Stock class. Running mostly sub threes, one of our runs 2.97xx.
This was a couple of hundredths faster than the next best guy.
We did not survive the ramp on lane number one on the first or the rerun as our ride popped off the side of the track and wrecked on both the first run and rerun. There was one more sub 3 second run that we had after that one that proved the car survived the wreck without damage.
I was sure that we would be going to final eliminations, as the rule states that the worst run will be dropped. At this point we were good to go and getting a slight taste of victory.
The preliminary scores came up on the board with the sum of all eight runs posted. 24.xxx was an obvious indication of issues to come. I had a sick feeling that the posted rules were not being followed.
I immediatly approached the officials. They claimed that this rule did not exist. Out came the rule book.
Next came an apology that did not change the end result of hundreds of hours of work, and a devistated nine year old.
It was not too late to adjust method of computation, but this was apparently too much work for them, so they refused to follow their own rules.
The end result was a 9.99 second time that removed our chances to be in the Quick 15 final eliminations.
Our four on the floor stock wheelbase car finished second overall in the stretched one raised wheel class. We were pleased at the results of this one, but the rug being pulled out from under the Stocker put an overall huge damper on the day.
Way to teach the scouts how to follow the rules.
The second best of the two was placed in the "Pro Stock" class. Pro stock rules are one wheel raised, modified wheelbase, drill your own holes. The better of the two went to "Stock" as I thought we had a real shot at the win in this class.
There were cars flying everywhere at the end of the track. Runoff management was unacceptable. I had to request a large piece of fabric be place at the end of the runoff to keep the cars from flipping off of the stage onto the concrete. Then there was lane number one on the one track that the faster cars with heavy rear percentage had some issues popping off. At the transition from the incline there was a fairly heavy rise causing issue.
The rules state:
"The slowest time will be dropped and the average of the remaining times will determine the results for each racer."
I am sure that this rule is in place in case there are issues as there were.
Things were looking real good for us in the Stock class. Running mostly sub threes, one of our runs 2.97xx.
This was a couple of hundredths faster than the next best guy.
We did not survive the ramp on lane number one on the first or the rerun as our ride popped off the side of the track and wrecked on both the first run and rerun. There was one more sub 3 second run that we had after that one that proved the car survived the wreck without damage.
I was sure that we would be going to final eliminations, as the rule states that the worst run will be dropped. At this point we were good to go and getting a slight taste of victory.
The preliminary scores came up on the board with the sum of all eight runs posted. 24.xxx was an obvious indication of issues to come. I had a sick feeling that the posted rules were not being followed.
I immediatly approached the officials. They claimed that this rule did not exist. Out came the rule book.
Next came an apology that did not change the end result of hundreds of hours of work, and a devistated nine year old.
It was not too late to adjust method of computation, but this was apparently too much work for them, so they refused to follow their own rules.
The end result was a 9.99 second time that removed our chances to be in the Quick 15 final eliminations.
Our four on the floor stock wheelbase car finished second overall in the stretched one raised wheel class. We were pleased at the results of this one, but the rug being pulled out from under the Stocker put an overall huge damper on the day.
Way to teach the scouts how to follow the rules.
Rule under "Stock Car Division: Wheels, Axles and Suspension"
3rd bullet point down reads "All 4 wheels must be on track at all times". This rule is absent in the "Pro Stock" class.
I guess this rule could be creatively interpreted to mean that the wheels were on the track but it never stated that they needed to be touching. Is this what you are referring to as not seeing the rule?
I am sure they meant four touching, but they don't seem to follow their own rules anyway.
3rd bullet point down reads "All 4 wheels must be on track at all times". This rule is absent in the "Pro Stock" class.
I guess this rule could be creatively interpreted to mean that the wheels were on the track but it never stated that they needed to be touching. Is this what you are referring to as not seeing the rule?
I am sure they meant four touching, but they don't seem to follow their own rules anyway.
V
Vitamin K
Guest
It sounds to me like this event could potentially be something good in the future. Definitely a lot of bugs to work out, though. Reading about the refusal to correct the time calculation issue is unacceptable. If they were using GPRM, changing the calculation policy is a simple tick of a box, and can be done at any time, during or after the racing.
My hope is that we can offer constructive criticism, that they might actually respond and do better in years to come.
My hope is that we can offer constructive criticism, that they might actually respond and do better in years to come.
- Nov 24, 2011
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V
Vitamin K
Guest
Kinser Racing said:
Pinewood Derby support at the Scout Level is not a zero sum game. Supporting one venue takes nothing from another. Omaha and New York are in different regions, and each race has the potential to spark more interest in the Scouting communities in its own area. Not every family can afford to fly across the nation for a wood car race, so the more large races we have across the country, the better it is for building up interest in the hobby...which feeds the crop of folks interested in racing at higher levels.
Turbodragracer is exactly correct.
If the posted times were 24.xxx seconds, that is obviously all 8 runs averaged. 7 runs posted would have come up closer to 21.xxx seconds. The best cars were running right near 3 seconds flat.
Note that they had 8 lanes, rather than 6.
This is a screenshot from the online rules. The second rule clearly indicates that the slowest time will be dropped before times are averaged. If they did not follow this procedure, they screwed it up.
I don't know what software they were using to keep track of everything, however, if it were any type of excel or other spreadsheet, it should have been a very easy thing to fix.
As a matter of fact, not following this procedure will likely really put a damper on some of the fastest cars with high rear weight percentage, particularly if one of the lanes was marginal in flatness.
I also understand that there were occasions where a car was run down the wrong lane, therefore, recording an incorrect time.
Not good. Many kids spent many hours on their cars. Integrity is something to be instilled. Many families spent a lot of money travelling to this event. It doesn't look like the organization tried very hard to adhere to their own rules.
If the posted times were 24.xxx seconds, that is obviously all 8 runs averaged. 7 runs posted would have come up closer to 21.xxx seconds. The best cars were running right near 3 seconds flat.
Note that they had 8 lanes, rather than 6.
This is a screenshot from the online rules. The second rule clearly indicates that the slowest time will be dropped before times are averaged. If they did not follow this procedure, they screwed it up.
I don't know what software they were using to keep track of everything, however, if it were any type of excel or other spreadsheet, it should have been a very easy thing to fix.
As a matter of fact, not following this procedure will likely really put a damper on some of the fastest cars with high rear weight percentage, particularly if one of the lanes was marginal in flatness.
I also understand that there were occasions where a car was run down the wrong lane, therefore, recording an incorrect time.
Not good. Many kids spent many hours on their cars. Integrity is something to be instilled. Many families spent a lot of money travelling to this event. It doesn't look like the organization tried very hard to adhere to their own rules.
V
Vitamin K
Guest
Does anybody have information on who best to send feedback to, in regard to the running of the race this past weekend?
- Nov 24, 2011
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Uncle Pinewood said:Turbodragracer is exactly correct.
If the posted times were 24.xxx seconds, that is obviously all 8 runs averaged. 7 runs posted would have come up closer to 21.xxx seconds. The best cars were running right near 3 seconds flat.
Note that they had 8 lanes, rather than 6.
This is a screenshot from the online rules. The second rule clearly indicates that the slowest time will be dropped before times are averaged. If they did not follow this procedure, they screwed it up.
I don't know what software they were using to keep track of everything, however, if it were any type of excel or other spreadsheet, it should have been a very easy thing to fix.
As a matter of fact, not following this procedure will likely really put a damper on some of the fastest cars with high rear weight percentage, particularly if one of the lanes was marginal in flatness.
I also understand that there were occasions where a car was run down the wrong lane, therefore, recording an incorrect time.
Not good. Many kids spent many hours on their cars. Integrity is something to be instilled. Many families spent a lot of money travelling to this event. It doesn't look like the organization tried very hard to adhere to their own rules.
Ditch NY and go west to Omaha!
- Nov 24, 2011
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Oh noooooooooo!
Some of the last few posts in thread are missing from the forum update. No need to restore them
Some of the last few posts in thread are missing from the forum update. No need to restore them
The missing posts had to do with the forum facelift. It's not just this thread.
I was just trying to be funny. Yep - keeping my day job...
I was just trying to be funny. Yep - keeping my day job...
So what time do YOU think a World Champion like yourself could run on the NPWDRL track?
I do know that they were using GPRM at this race. So, if there was an issue with how they setup the scoring in the software, they could have easily changed it at any point.
I was invited to come to this race by one of the organizers to help out with the running of the software. However, my travel dollars had already been spent with my trip to Mid America and for my wife and I to visit our eldest son who is stationed overseas with the Navy. I would have liked to check out this race, though. Maybe next year.
I do hope that you guys are providing constructive feedback to the race organizers so they can improve for next year. I believe that Mid America is what it is since Greg is receptive to feedback for making things better. If you need a point of contact, let me know, and I can post the email of the guy that I know of.
I was invited to come to this race by one of the organizers to help out with the running of the software. However, my travel dollars had already been spent with my trip to Mid America and for my wife and I to visit our eldest son who is stationed overseas with the Navy. I would have liked to check out this race, though. Maybe next year.
I do hope that you guys are providing constructive feedback to the race organizers so they can improve for next year. I believe that Mid America is what it is since Greg is receptive to feedback for making things better. If you need a point of contact, let me know, and I can post the email of the guy that I know of.
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