Axle Installation

[NewDerbyDad]

Hello All,

I'm fairly new to the site and this is our first year in the Derby. I'm happy to say we took 1st place in the Tigers heat and 2nd place overall just using information found on the internet before I stumbled onto this site. All I can say is WOW. I've been reading and reading for over two weeks now and can easily see what I did right and what I did wrong. My son and I are already planning our next year's car making notes upon notes of do's and don'ts. What a great site this is!

I have a question about mounting the axles. This year I hammered using my son's hammer from his Lowe's kit (very small). I must say I was leery of it the whole time and was relieved when the axles were in. I had glue holes drilled in the bottom (on the recommendation of another site) but honestly couldn't see why I would need them as trying to pull the axles back out with pliers was a very difficult task, (although I could twist them to adjust for a straight-running car which is another topic I see all to itself)

So in what I have been able to read thus far it seems I should drill the axle holes but maybe run the drill bit in and out a couple times. Then I should be able to simply push the axles into the axle holes snug enough to stay in without glue, but easy enough to pull out to adjust - is that the correct way?

Also - what's the best way to pull the axles out? I've seen a custom axle pulling tool that seems it would work nicely as opposed to grabbing with some pliers which may alter the shape of the axle head or just pulling the wheel against the axle which may deform the outer hub.

Thanks so much for the help. Looking forward to hanging here for years to come!

 

[jator359]

I'll field the first question. I learned the hard way why you need the "glue holes" or relief holes. Once you get one axle in, and follow with the other side, you're pushing the air in with no place to go, especially if your clearance is tight. I was tempted to use a hammer for that 2nd axle but restrained myself and pushed in with my thumbs instead. Consequently I damaged some nerves in my thumbs which took 2 weeks for the feeling to come back. As far as running the drill bit in and out, don't do it! Instead, take a spare axle with the same shaft diameter as the one you're going to use and work that in and out of the hole to relieve it. I have a spare axle specifically for that purpose that I grasp the head using MaxV pliers.

 

[Skippy Kicky]

I have used that custom axle pulling tool and will never use it again. It will scratch th axle head and will slow you down. The best option is to releive the holes as described earlier. Don't put your wheels on until the holes are releived, especially if you are using lighter wheels. There are some custom axle head pliers that work nice once you pull the wheel out far enough. They also have an indent that is nice for pushing axles in. I wouldn't use a hammer.

 

[NewDerbyDad]

Thanks guys - so I'm gonna keep the glue holes to make axle installation easier, and then use a spare axle to kind of relax the axle hole so that when ready I should be able to just push my prepped wheels and axles into place. Is that correct? At that point would I need to add glue to keep the axles in place or not?

 

[Skippy Kicky]

You want to releive the holes so you can get your axles in and out without stressing the wheel. You shouldn't need glue. You want them to have a tight fit still. It is a fine balance.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Thanks guys - so I'm gonna keep the glue holes to make axle installation easier, and then use a spare axle to kind of relax the axle hole so that when ready I should be able to just push my prepped wheels and axles into place. Is that correct? At that point would I need to add glue to keep the axles in place or not?

Don't glue until you have done your tuning. You want to get your drift, if your using the rail running technique, down or if you're just trying to straight, you want that tuned prior to glue. AFTER you tune, then glue.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Hello All,

I'm fairly new to the site and this is our first year in the Derby. I'm happy to say we took 1st place in the Tigers heat and 2nd place overall just using information found on the internet before I stumbled onto this site. All I can say is WOW. I've been reading and reading for over two weeks now and can easily see what I did right and what I did wrong. My son and I are already planning our next year's car making notes upon notes of do's and don'ts. What a great site this is!

I have a question about mounting the axles. This year I hammered using my son's hammer from his Lowe's kit (very small). I must say I was leery of it the whole time and was relieved when the axles were in. I had glue holes drilled in the bottom (on the recommendation of another site) but honestly couldn't see why I would need them as trying to pull the axles back out with pliers was a very difficult task, (although I could twist them to adjust for a straight-running car which is another topic I see all to itself)

So in what I have been able to read thus far it seems I should drill the axle holes but maybe run the drill bit in and out a couple times. Then I should be able to simply push the axles into the axle holes snug enough to stay in without glue, but easy enough to pull out to adjust - is that the correct way?

Also - what's the best way to pull the axles out? I've seen a custom axle pulling tool that seems it would work nicely as opposed to grabbing with some pliers which may alter the shape of the axle head or just pulling the wheel against the axle which may deform the outer hub.

Thanks so much for the help. Looking forward to hanging here for years to come!

Reading your post you sound a lot like me. I just joined a couple weeks ago and learned more now than I did in a month before my sons first pinewood derby race which we got second in tigers and first overall, and 2nd in tigers at districts. I've learned a lot of do's and don'ts since then. Welcome to the site and get ready for an experience because there's a lot of great advice and experience to be share on this site!

 

[Kinser Racing]

You should not have to ever use glue on your axles. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

Thanks guys - so I'm gonna keep the glue holes to make axle installation easier, and then use a spare axle to kind of relax the axle hole so that when ready I should be able to just push my prepped wheels and axles into place. Is that correct? At that point would I need to add glue to keep the axles in place or not?

Don't glue until you have done your tuning. You want to get your drift, if your using the rail running technique, down or if you're just trying to straight, you want that tuned prior to glue. AFTER you tune, then glue.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Should is not a word I ever like to hear. That's like saying your wheels should be ok or your wheels should not fall off.

 

[Kinser Racing]

Maybe you "CAN" tell me how to build a car then.

Should is not a word I ever like to hear. That's like saying your wheels should be ok or your wheels should not fall off.

 

[Papa V Racing]

FYI------>>>>

Kinser has all those badges under his name as he does the very same thing he shares in the threads..

V

 

[Kinser Racing]

I only said should not for the grand majority, there are a few rare cases where you might glue an axle. I've done it twice, on needle axle cars. 99.9% of people that come here for information are not going to build one of those cars. The NPWDRL doesn't even have those classes. However, nothing in life is definite, so I said should not.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Sorry I'm not a "pro" I did glue my wheels and we won our pack. I don't know why you shouldn't, but maybe the pros can explain why not.

 

[Kinser Racing]

You meant you glued your axles not your wheels right? Re-prep and your taking a big chance of getting glue on the wheels is why I wouldn't do it.

Sorry I'm not a "pro" I did glue my wheels and we won our pack. I don't know why you shouldn't, but maybe the pros can explain why not.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

You meant you glued your axles not your wheels right? Re-prep and your taking a big chance of getting glue on the wheels is why I wouldn't do it.

Sorry I'm not a "pro" I did glue my wheels and we won our pack. I don't know why you shouldn't, but maybe the pros can explain why not.

Yes sorry was on my phone responding. Glue the axles. 1 drop of CA glue with 5 sec cure time or gorilla glue, 1 drop towards the end of the axles then air dry with a hair drier or fan. I dont see that doing any damage or getting on the wheels. Or you can put some glue on a paint brush and brush the end of the axles and block ( for slotted). I guess if you're careful what does it hurt? But I see Kinsers point that it could get on your wheel or on your axle where you don't want it to be.

 

[jator359]

+1 The only time I ever felt compelled to glue was early on when we didn't know or had the tools to drill axle holes and used the slots, especially after losing a wheel in a crash in a stop section that had come loose during a run.

You should not have to ever use glue on your axles. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

Thanks guys - so I'm gonna keep the glue holes to make axle installation easier, and then use a spare axle to kind of relax the axle hole so that when ready I should be able to just push my prepped wheels and axles into place. Is that correct? At that point would I need to add glue to keep the axles in place or not?

Don't glue until you have done your tuning. You want to get your drift, if your using the rail running technique, down or if you're just trying to straight, you want that tuned prior to glue. AFTER you tune, then glue.

 

[Kinser Racing]

Even being careful people still make mistakes. I will amend by saying that if you had to use the slots you would want to glue. But, I don't recommend using the slots without drilling with "The Silver Bullet" right above them for the axle and you may possibly still want to glue it.

 

[IAE Racing]

If you use slots drill and relieve the holes like Kinser desrcibed, Adhesive probably is NOT wararnted. If you crash and you loose a wheel without glue it will be a lot easier fix. Might need glue then. Been there, done that, still got third. If you crash with glue, something breaks worse, either more wood is torn out or a wheel breaks. Harder to fix. Say another car comes of the track, smacks yours you break a wheel. No problem pull axle replace wheel, still win race. Or glue axle in, fix that in two minutes. Ok, so you only put a drop. Is it actuaaly doing anythig usefull. So you get home from your race with car and need or want to pull wheels to reprep for next, or the next race the rules allow good wheels, ...........

Funny story, this year we were in a race where one of our friends kids mixed up the glue and graphite and put the glue on his wheels. The car didn't run well when it should of at least placed. They glued the axles in. If they hadnt and not had the glue sitting right there... Those were pinecars with the single axles on top of it. They definetly don't need glue.

That just my 2 cents.

 

[IAE Racing]

Sorry Kinser, Hopefully I did not trump you. We new guys certainly appreciated your great and proven advise. I just thought I would add some real scenarios to help add to the picture.

 

[NewDerbyDad]

Wow - didn't realize I was going to spark a glue debate LOL! Thanks so much for all the replies!

After reading everything, I do believe my plan forward will be to relax the axle holes with an unused axle so that the axles will be snug enough to stay in, but not require a hammer or loss of nerves in my thumbs to install, and skip the glue which would make re-prepping or repairs more difficult.

Thanks again all!