BASX Car NDFW

Mister B Racing

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Pro Racer
Nov 6, 2013
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On a BASX car is there any advantage to running the NDFW reversed? Since wheel covers are not allowed it seems to me that the reversed NDFW opening would catch a lot of air and slow the car down. Has anyone run their NDFW both ways in the races and compared times to see if there is an advantage one way or the other?

Thanks,
Steve - Mister B.
 
I noticed that the BASX wheels are available in two different diameters. In what case would you run the larger or smaller diameter wheels? Is there much weight difference between the two?
 
KGL said:
I noticed that the BASX wheels are available in two different diameters. In what case would you run the larger or smaller diameter wheels? Is there much weight difference between the two?

Remember that the BASX wheels are also sold to be used on Scout cars. Some rules restrict the minimum diameter to 1.18" so that's why the larger size is offered. I don't know that there's any speed advantage to one size over the other though.
 
Even though you can't use fenders for BASX class, I still believe Areodynamics play a role when selecting a smaller NDFW. I'm no scientist and have not tested this, but I would assume less surface area would = less friction?
 
The small diameter isn't for a smaller wheel.. Some people like myself like running a taller wheel.. Others like running a small wheel. The wheels size John sales is different size for the racer, not left front. I personally run a wheel that's taller than what most people run
 
KGL said:
I noticed that the BASX wheels are available in two different diameters. In what case would you run the larger or smaller diameter wheels? Is there much weight difference between the two?

TXCHEMIST might be able to back me up on this. The question to be considered on smaller circumference wheel vs. larger is:
1. Smaller wheel rotates more time down the track than larger -- thus -- More friction in bore & axle
2. Anyone who had done any kind of road racing knows that "un-sprung weight" increases speed, thus racers reduce weight in everything that turns (flywheel, pistons, rods, wheels [especially tires & wheels], etc.), at least to the degree they don't lose their strength.
3. When reducing weight on a rotating disk, taking weight off the out edges is more important than taking it out of the inner edges or centers.

There has to be a "diminishing return" the further you go between 1. vs. (2. & 3.) above.

But all in all, #'s 2 and 3 outweigh #1.

This can be proven in many ways manually. E.g. take a tennis sized ball, vs. an iron ball of the exact same outer dimensions and roll then down an inclined plain together. The light ball picks up speed much faster because the heavier ball has to pick up momentum. But if that incline plain is shaped like a pinewood derby track, with a long flat at the end. Depending upon length of the flat, the iron ball, once it has picked up it's momentum, will gradually catch and pass the lighter ball (depending upon the length of the flat part).

You could do the same experiment with a disk. Make two disks that weigh exactly the same of the same material, but one with the heavier part of the disk towards the center, and the other with most of the weight on the outside edges. Roll them down a similar surface, and the result will be the same as above. The one with less weight on the outside is fastest downhill, but the other once it has built up it's momentum, will eventually pass the other on the flat part.

Look at the newer ELIM and UNLIM wheels that are being made by Joel, John, and perhaps others. They take as much weight as possible off the outer edges, and are thicker/heavier towards the center.
But if this is taken to an extreme, the wheel becomes too fragile, and is more prone to getting "Knicks" on the running edges.

So, IMHO, for pinewood wheels, smaller circumference is better.

Now, I am prepared to be criticized by whoever, AND support is also welcome.
 
I've run my BASX car with the 1.17 dia. wheels and the 1.18 dia. wheels. For me the 4 run average time was virtually the same. Now my car is not that fast, so what this tells me is that I need to look at more than just wheel dia. like wheel and axle prep, weight placement and tuning.
 
I know the secret as to why John's BASX was so much faster than everyone else. I have the mystery sauce and the process to apply it. I'll be waiting for you all at the finish line...
 
Oparennen --- Everything you said is Spot on. We race cars & go karts and we make everything as lite as possible. It makes a difference. Axles ,wheels. Rims
Gears. drive shafts ---everything !!! 3000 RPM tire --- Forsure

Jim & Andrew
 
I know that reducing unsprung weight can add more speed and improve handling on a full size car, but I'm not sure how to apply that when the two PWD wheels in question weigh virtually the same?
 
OPA has made 3 important things for speed that sometimes you have a manufacturing trade-off.
IF you had two wheels of identical weight, and identical moment of inertia, but one was larger diameter, the larger diameter would be faster. HOWEVER, start with many BSA wheels and most need something taken off to get the concentric flat surface and will need to be slightly less in diameter. They will be faster than the larger diameter wheel if the larger diameter wheel is not perfectly round. They will be faster because of perfect surface, and lighter weight, and lower moment of inertia. So to keep a few wheels up at the high end of the diameter, and be perfect, you may need to screen many wheels, and after getting the surface perfect- attempt to remove some weight from the outside edge and stay within the rules. The following car calulations have 7 things ( in green) that relate to the wheel and your speed.
The coefficient of friction is the combined wheel to axle + wheel to body or axle head + rolling on track + grinding/rolling against rail with the DFW
car9nfo.jpg
 
~JBD RACING~ said:
I've found some speed in BASX... Around 4-6 thousands with my 2 new cars.. And picked up 3 with my existing car.
Well, la di da!
 
You guys are so cute talking about your .000X you found. My BASX is so fast now it's going to race in the unlimited class also it will set a track record for sure.