Beginner looking for wisdom

[cmoney atrain]

Wow there is a wealth of knowledge in these discussions. Thank you All for being so willing to teach. I have been reading and taking notes. My son took 3rd in his scout district last year and 2nd this year. I’m catching the bug and think that I may want to learn as much as I can about this in preparation for his cub last year. First place in our races is usually in the high 3.16s (don’t laugh). I would love to learn how to build a sub 3.0 car, but is that even a real expectation with stock BSA wheels, Axels, Blocks and dry lube?

From you all I’ve learned Thin to Win. (Probably will buy a DD4H kit with pre-drilled holes. Not sure if the ladder has the most potential to be the fastest.)
Straight rear axels but drill 3.0 degree rear holes.
Lube (Krytox or Graphite?)
Rail runner 4inches in 4feet on test board.
Polish axels and wheels
Use Delrin Washers

Anything else I should research on this forum?

By the way, these are our scout rules:

The official pine wood block that came in your kit must be used. The block may be shaped in any way that is desired.
Official BSA wheels must be used. Imperfections may be removed from the wheels, however no other wheel changes are allowed. The bead pattern on the outside edge of the wheel must remain intact.
Wafer, razor, or disc wheels will NOT be allowed! The tread width must not be narrowed beyond its original width.
The axles that came in your kit must be used. They may be altered, polished or lubricated.
Wheel bearings, washers or bushings are prohibited
The car must not ride on any type of springs
No starting devices. The car must be freewheeling.
No loose material of any kind, such as lead shot, may be used.
PLEASE use dry powdered graphite ONLY. You may not use any other lubricant, especially oils and silicone sprays (they will damage the track).

 

[Stumpm2]

Quick glimpse at the rules cancels out several of your plans if you want to follow the rules and teach your son to win within the rules. Starting with DD4H block goes against the first sentence, Krytox or any other lubricant clearly can not be used, and Delrin washers are not allowed.

Nothing says you have to use the slots or have to have four wheels touching. So I would start by flipping the block over and cutting a thin body. Drill rear canted axle holes 5/8” from the back and run a slightly extended wheel base. Build a three wheel rail rider with a bent front axle. Remove the flashing from the under side of the nail heads and polish the axles up. Use tungsten for weight and try to get a body light enough that you can add 3.25 ounces or more of tungsten. Read up on various graphite burnishing techniques and test out to see what works for you.

 

[cmoney atrain]

Actually yes, I had planned to keep the rules. I didn’t realize the DD4H block was not BSA. But yes krytox and the washer are out. That was an oversight. Thank you for pointing that out.

That sounds like great advice. I will do that.

 

[Vitamin K]

I would say that if the rules say "imperfections may be removed" for the wheels, you are within your rights to purchase wheels that have been trued on the outer tread, so long as the tread pattern is intact. I think bore prep is also perfectly okay under this rule. So get a good wheel bore polishing process.

I don't see any prohibitions on wheelbase or axle holes, so I'd definitely extend the wheelbase and set the car up as a 3-wheel touching rail-rider.

Choose a good graphite blend and read up on burnishing and lubrication techniques.

 

[Mojo Racing]

I find it funny that they say oil damages the track...

Damage is MINIMAL compared to graphite.

 

[Vitamin K]

I find it funny that they say oil damages the track...

Damage is MINIMAL compared to graphite.

The whole "oil damages the track" thing is like a bad meme that circulates in the mind of Pinewood Derby race organizers.

Maybe they have some vision in their minds of cars spraying WD-40 as they roll down the track, leaving an oil slick behind.

There really needs to be a concerted effort to dispel these myths to the scouting PWD community. I wish Scouting Magazine would publish some kind of article like "Banning oil for your derby? Think again!" I wonder if they'd run it if it were submitted to them...

 

[TRE]

The scout shops sell krytox now

 

[Vitamin K]

The scout shops sell krytox now

Yes, I was able to use this as leverage to get oil allowed for our District.

That said, the argument still seems to lost on some folks. Even the Mid-America Council requires graphite for most of its classes.

 

[gWebber]

I have a genral question that fits the conversation.

Rules say it must be a BSA body block.

Question, after all the cutting, shaping and painting, how can they know where the block came from?

Seems like an Honor System Rule to me .. not that I’d suggest cheating to anyone

 

[Skywalker Racing]

I have a genral question that fits the conversation.

Rules say it must be a BSA body block.

Question, after all the cutting, shaping and painting, how can they know where the block came from?

Seems like an Honor System Rule to me .. not that I’d suggest cheating to anyone

They don't, and it totally is. You're right.

 

[Skywalker Racing]

Yes, I was able to use this as leverage to get oil allowed for our District.

That said, the argument still seems to lost on some folks. Even the Mid-America Council requires graphite for most of its classes.

It's not that MA wants to require graphite. (Some of them would rather an all oil race). They're just smart enough to recognize that graphite (despite its drawbacks) is still the lube of choice for Scout families who don't know any better. To attract the most number of racers and give them a fair race, it makes more sense to make graphite only and oil only classes.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I got that ridiculous rule changed for our Powder Puff race. Told everyone that one bottle of Krytox from the Scout store would lube every girl in a Troop's car for years, and was far less messy. That, and I started helping with the race and wrote the rules.

Still working on the Cub's district race. They are Troglodytes when it comes to the rules. I talked to one of them this year about the 4 wheel touching rule and his response was "We have to hold them to some kind of standard".