class split (pro/am)

[Guest]

Wanted to get peoples opinion on a subject that I have thought about for awhile now. The NPWDRL has grown so fast since John started this new forum. I see we have over 250+ registered on the site now. Now i know not every one of the members is here to race league races but they are here and there is a chance to get them to join in on the fun. So my question is this......With the incredible speeds we are seeing from the guys that have been around leagues for awhile, is there a chance we are scaring off some of the guys/girls that might want to try league racing? I think there is a good chance of this and also, a racer that does try racing and gets beat pretty bad might not want to keep coming back. A solution i have seen work in other hobbies I have been involved with is to create a "Pro" division and an "amateur" division. This will give a newcomer a chance to compete with racers near his/her own level until they learn more about how to get their cars to the next level. The "am" class can even run with the "Pro" class and thus we would still only have (4) races. Not sure if this would affect the scoring system but if it does, maybe there is another way to achieve this? Bottom line is, I want to continue to grow this hobby. John has created a great atmosphere here and I think we will be getting more and more new people interested in league racing. I just don't want to lose them because they might be afraid they can't compete with guys that have been doing it for awhile. Any thoughts from others?

Ian

 

[Ryanh]

As a virgin to league racing but experienced in other competitive hobbies I will say that the am class sounds good in theory but rarely works as planned. I like most others lingered in the dark on pinewood forums for a while before jumping on with both feet and was fully aware of the level of competition here. I know the host of these events already have their hands full but if they feel they can work it In with little problems it will definately bring more competitors to the sport. As a parent with a nine year son who is building his car to compete in the series I am a fan of a kids group, it really got my son to speed up his build when he found out the Feb. race had one. This is only my opinion, I can't wait to race either way!

 

[Chief]

[font="times new roman, times, serif"]Wow, Goat...that is a tough call, great idea on one hand but on the other hand well, I am not sure. I am a teacher and I see things that a lot of young adults do and the way they think. I see that there could be the possibility that it would be as though the "Pro" racers would be lowering the standards, and people would just send in some slapped together mediocre crap that may or may not make the full length of the track.. I am not trying to sound mean or rude, I think it is a great idea kind of like the Major league and Minor league baseball. But at what point does someone consider them-self a "Pro"? I think that if you leave it as is, then the bar is set fairly high, and when guys like myself do send in a car and get their @$$ handed to them it educates us and we try harder next time and make improvements as we learn. I think there will always be the kind of people out there that just do things half @$$ and dont much care. I am here at the forum to learn and to get beat, NO really, at our pack we have not been beat and it just isnt much fun to see your car way out in front every race time and again. How can we learn and grow if no one steps up for the challenge. Maybe this is a good idea and to take it a step further you could have a tournament of the "AM's" and the top 8 I guess would get a chance to run with the "Pro's"??? I love the concept, but I still want to see Kinser or you and all of you just WAX us so I can see where it is I need to fix and improve our game.??? thoughts???[/font]

 

[PxTx]

It seems like breaking into sub 3's is a bit of a big deal. Maybe as of today, that could be the threshold between the Pro/Am guys.

I'm talking street stock here because that is what interests me right now. but it could start out like this. The day of a race could require 1 qualifying run. If you are sun 3 then you'll compete in Pro for that event. Any of the cars which run Am that event break into sub 3's, they will become Pro in the next event.

After the first session the # of cars which have to qualify should be pretty low. Yes, a sub 3 could win the am event but that car would not get to do that more than once.

To tell you the truth, I was kinda hoping there could be a "Pure Stock" or "Box Stock" event basically requiring all BSA components and build. Using stock axles and slots, not drilled holes. Mods to wheels and such should be kept in the spirit of what could be done without a lathe or other "uncommon" tools. Basically a class which would be the epitome of what most of the BSA Pinewood derby cars appear as.

 

[W racing]

I would love to see the BSA class come back with choice for graphite or oil. All cars race together until the finals. Then graphite seperated out from oil.

 

[Quicktimederby]

To accommodate or not to accommodate??? When I started doing this back in June, yes not even a year ago I did get destroyed! It helped me to understand that I wasn't as fast or good as I thought, and I had a lot that could learn. Now most people when something like this happens will do one of two things. 1. Press forward put the time, effort and passion into it to create a better personal and league experience. 2. Give into defeat and go no further, still able to build pack winning cars but that's it.
For me I would have liked a beginner class at first, but now as I look back am glad that there isent. When I get beat down it makes me try a little harder, try something new or different. Sometimes it works sometimes I go back wards.
I think the best way to keep people coming back and participating is doing what THIS board already does. Answers all question, even if they are redundant or basic, keep a positive atmosphere, and keep up the friendly razing(of board members) and spirit of competition. Those are my thoughts, but as wife wife constantly tells me I am not always right, and I tell her yea just most of the time.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

I would love to see a Pro/Am split. I think there are more than enough racers to be able to do this but they are not participating. In general most people will race at this level a few times before the fever wears off til the next season and that is cool. Most of us are the extreme of the sport and it is hard for us to compete for an entire season. In order to build this we have to get a MAJOR sponsor to help promote it. It will take a group effort and we definitely have the right group to do it.

 

[DNA RACING]

I too can see both sides of the coin here, As a racer, I got smoked alot last year, and never did break sub 3. This year i used my humbling whupings from last year as a motivational tool and it has paid off. but while i was a new guy, i realy wished there was a AM division. As a promoter, it sounds good on paper but running a full field right now with 80% pro's and 20% "locals" with a turnout of a probable 200+ cars, i am looking at a FULL day of racing. if i broke it up, and advertised it , I could expect to hit 300 easy. then i have a 2 day event on my hands. as it stands right now, next year the CFC may have to be a 2 day race. i am still working the numbers. maybe the pro class on Saturday and the AM / youth on Sunday. It is a great idea, but it is not an easy one to actually pull off.
then there is the doomsday scenario you have a 2 day event and a 1000 cars show up !!
in that case i would have to go from 6 runs a car down to 3 runs, ( only 1 run per lane.)and that i feel would kinda miff most of the league guys.

 

[Shade Racing]

how about this 1st year racers race the classes with the Pros & at the end of the year the 1st year racer (Rookie) with the most points wins "Rookie of The Year" this would be like Nascar & all the 1st year racers racing would be racing each other for the Title

Just a thought

 

[Kinser Racing]

how about this 1st year racers race the classes with the Pros & at the end of the year the 1st year racer (Rookie) with the most points wins "Rookie of The Year" this would be like Nascar & all the 1st year racers racing would be racing each other for the Title

Just a thought

Leave it or choose this option. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Quicktimederby]

+1

how about this 1st year racers race the classes with the Pros & at the end of the year the 1st year racer (Rookie) with the most points wins "Rookie of The Year" this would be like Nascar & all the 1st year racers racing would be racing each other for the Title

Just a thought

Leave it or choose this option. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Aaoracing]

I am a new guy to pinewood derby racing and have been wanting to build some cars to send in. I think a Pro/Am split would be a benefit to all of the new guys like myself. If not, I like Shade's idea too

 

[E.T.Racing]

I also like the rookie of the year idea that Shade proposed.

 

[Quicktimederby]

I think we should run them all together pro&am, and all the am's could have a * by their name. That way they would be easy to identify on the results page.

 

[DON]

I'm new to this with only one car and one race behind me. But here is my take on the subject. This could be for one class or all classes.
Everyone has one qualifying run, all from the same lane. Top 50% and ties goes to group 1 and the rest goes to group 2. A car that is group 1 for a race might find

himself in group 2 the next. This gives beginners a better chance to see a better result early on and keeps everyone else working to make there car better to stay

in the elite group.

 

[Kinser Racing]

KISS!

 

[Chief]

[font="times new roman, times, serif"]UH??? was that an acronym or a rock band???[/font]

 

[Kinser Racing]

The former.

 

[Pinewood Garage]

Instead of a split why not grade the rookies with a handicap?

 

[Kinser Racing]

Here's my issue with this entire discussion. You all have the ability to develop speed at an accelerated pace. The sharing of information is far greater than it was a couple of years ago. John (DerbyDad4Hire) has given us all the the "Oil Secrets Unlocked" video. We're sharing axles can't, lube and set up info that was never shared to such detail as it is now. You're going to have to participate though. You're not going to be able to build one car, run it and expect to be running at the top. You have to race yourself for awhile. I guarantee that if you build several cars, take what you learn, you may have to build several more, you'll get fast. I ran twelve different cars last year. We had six races, and in the first 4 I only ran three different cars. You have to build and learn, if you do this, you'll be running very competitively by summer break.