Sorry , posted before I read the first page. Rookie of the year sounds good. There is no am/ pro split in NASCAR or Indy that I know of. I choose to race at this level with you guys. I have won at a local level a lot and the locals are getting faster and I need to get even faster still. My racing will get stagnant if I do not compete at higher levels with better racers. I say the challenge will weed out spectators from the competitors.
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We want all of you to come and race, it's fun and fantastic. We welcome you. It's just when you get it handed to you, try, try again. I was once a very discouraged new racer, John can verify that (lol). I had to take a long break due to health issues. But I can guarantee that if you build and learn you will get faster. Let the loss motivate you. I spent thousands of dollars, I've got lubes and oils for everything, cutting, machining, fishing, cycling, skateboarding, marine, auto, aerospace, you name it. If there's something that needs lube at my house I've got countless choices. You guys don't have to do this. Buy John's DVD, polish, Blue Thunder, secrete Krytox mix and you're 95% there. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif
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Chris,
I apologize that you have a problem with this discussion. My attempt at bringing this up was to see if racers thought a split would be a good idea. I have been involved with many different hobbies and most all have had some sort of split to allow new racers a chance to get there feet wet with other racers at their level. I was big into RC racing and if there was not a novice class when I started, I would have never got involved because the top level was intimidating. After 1 season of racing and watching the top racers, i made the move up and was able to compete. I also think this applies here. There are over 250 members here and we had 25 builders this past month. I am shocked at this and thought maybe some were just a little hesitant to get involved when the top guys are just so fast. If these racers could have a class with similar skilled builders, maybe we could grow the hobby. I know it sounds good in theory to tell new racers to just jump in with the current racers but I am guessing a lot of the new crowd may get discouraged and may quit the hobby. I know there are some new guys out there that will not mind jumping right in and taking their lumps while they learn. This was for those that wanted to get involved with us but with a group at their same building level. I have talked with John about this and he had some real great ideas on how we can get newer racers racing with others at their level. Again, this was all a discussion to help grow the hobby.
Thank you all for your input. With discussions like this, we can see what members are wanting so we can all grow this great hobby together.
Ian
I apologize that you have a problem with this discussion. My attempt at bringing this up was to see if racers thought a split would be a good idea. I have been involved with many different hobbies and most all have had some sort of split to allow new racers a chance to get there feet wet with other racers at their level. I was big into RC racing and if there was not a novice class when I started, I would have never got involved because the top level was intimidating. After 1 season of racing and watching the top racers, i made the move up and was able to compete. I also think this applies here. There are over 250 members here and we had 25 builders this past month. I am shocked at this and thought maybe some were just a little hesitant to get involved when the top guys are just so fast. If these racers could have a class with similar skilled builders, maybe we could grow the hobby. I know it sounds good in theory to tell new racers to just jump in with the current racers but I am guessing a lot of the new crowd may get discouraged and may quit the hobby. I know there are some new guys out there that will not mind jumping right in and taking their lumps while they learn. This was for those that wanted to get involved with us but with a group at their same building level. I have talked with John about this and he had some real great ideas on how we can get newer racers racing with others at their level. Again, this was all a discussion to help grow the hobby.
Thank you all for your input. With discussions like this, we can see what members are wanting so we can all grow this great hobby together.
Ian
Kinser Racing said:
- Nov 24, 2011
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Ian,
I'm not offended and I don't have a problem with the discussion. I totally understand it. It's the turn the discussion starts to take. What strokes the most prominent difference between issue and problem is the solution. When you have an issue, you generally can readily come up with the solution. I believe Shade nailed it.
Some of the suggested solutions really aren't viable. Whose really a rookie or amateur? There were a couple of Rookies that came in last year, set track records, and won at MOTM. This is really much different than other sports or hobbies. We could have non league racers come in with forty years of car building experience or it could be their first build. There's no way to know. My point is: Let's keep it simple.
P.S. I must apologize if I've come off as being testy, I've been cooped up in the house with pneumonia for a week.
I'm not offended and I don't have a problem with the discussion. I totally understand it. It's the turn the discussion starts to take. What strokes the most prominent difference between issue and problem is the solution. When you have an issue, you generally can readily come up with the solution. I believe Shade nailed it.
Some of the suggested solutions really aren't viable. Whose really a rookie or amateur? There were a couple of Rookies that came in last year, set track records, and won at MOTM. This is really much different than other sports or hobbies. We could have non league racers come in with forty years of car building experience or it could be their first build. There's no way to know. My point is: Let's keep it simple.
P.S. I must apologize if I've come off as being testy, I've been cooped up in the house with pneumonia for a week.
I too want to grow the hobby, I would like to use it in my local area and have a local league. Yes, you guys are intimidating. I have never used a tuning board other than to get my cars to drift slightly over 7' section of best track. I have never used oil. I have never used 3 wheels or bearings. I do not have a track of my own set up in my shop/basement. I have not used a BSA wheel since I was a kid. Awana races are the only racing I have done except for an open class last spring at the local district race in which we did use BSA wheels and took first and second. I did race a couple of the P**R races with very slow cars. A split is fine but for me I feel that as soon as I send in an oil car I will be under 3 sec. The last cars I sent in did single runs at 2.8 with graphite on a 42' best track. My prep/cleanup was not as good as I found out from johns vid. My girls car came in last in the pro class against oil and three wheel cars. I feel we did very well considering. Without things that I have learned here from the racers I greatly admire we would have not done as well as we did. I don't think most racers join the forum to race the league, but they do join to learn to get faster locally. I feel there are very few that are willing to spend the money to race proxy unless they know they are fast and share in the sickness or whatever you what to call it. Yes, the information is out there and is so much easier to get now than it was. I really appreciate the fact that all the bunk and myth that is out there is dispelled by the contributors of this forum. The fellowship and camaraderie that is expressed here is why I continue to follow and race with you guys. If it was not for the collective experiences of the racers of this forum I probably would not have continued to race.
As a new guy just beginning to race, to me it does not matter either way, you have to start somewhere. I began my interest in PWD racing last year, and have learned a lot from searching boards and the Internet. I have determined that I will race here at NPWDRL /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif! It has taken me the past year to accumulate the equipment I believe is necessary to compete. Now that I have those things in place I will begin my racing at the CFC race. I know that I have a lot more to learn and have no expectation of being a top performer initially, I am looking forward to the competition, the camaraderie and learning how to make these planks fast
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I was a rookie last year, and after the first race came very close to quitting, mostly because of the vast difference between my car and the competition. I was 36 out of 37. Throughout the year, I always wanted to know how I was running compared to other rookies, 2nd years and 3rd year or more. I didn't care about a rookie trophy or anything, I simply wanted to know. To be truthfull, the only reason I continued is I wanted to know more to assist my many grandsons. Unfortunately, I caught the fever, bought too many tools, and now I am stuck with the velvet glove.
Maybe this could be solved by a simple number showing how many years in league racing.
PS. Quicktimederby was also a rookie. Maybe it's good I didn't know that. He advanced so fast, I might have given up had I known that.
However, that being said, maybe a "real" pure stock class with very restrictive rules, like no cant, no special axles, maybe even use the slots. Something along those lines, but something we could get the existing BSA cars, usually primarily made by the dads, to enter without changes. ?????
Maybe this could be solved by a simple number showing how many years in league racing.
PS. Quicktimederby was also a rookie. Maybe it's good I didn't know that. He advanced so fast, I might have given up had I known that.
However, that being said, maybe a "real" pure stock class with very restrictive rules, like no cant, no special axles, maybe even use the slots. Something along those lines, but something we could get the existing BSA cars, usually primarily made by the dads, to enter without changes. ?????
This has been a battle in my head for years. I think I have a way to do this but I am scared to implement anything for fear of ruining what we have built to this point. What everyone must understand is that in order to do this most prizes given will be to the Pro class. The major hurdle when splitting is the inevitable sandbaggers and the lack of pure numbers of racers. If we had 50 per class each event it would be very easy.
Most league racers started building pwd cars with their kids in scouts and many are still involved with scouts. I would be in favor of adding a scout class (independent of the pro classes) which would give kids a place to race their 4 wheel (1 raised) extended wheelbase cars. Begin the scout class racing in June or July after the Cub Scouts and Girl Scouts racing has concluded for the year. Let them race 3-4 races and award a trophy for the top 1 or top 3 finishers at the end of the year. They don't need to race in the MOTM Championship. Number one rule: kids must help build their own cars.
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I think any idea is worth listening to. However, we are all professional builders, and whatever anyone thinks, Kinser showd what a rookie can accomplish!! If there is a split, I would have to be considered a novice. I don't sandbag, but I might hit on something like Kinser has, and all of the sudden I'm an expert...but in reality I may not know exactly what I did to get faster. Anyone who has 5.04999999 ounces of compeditiveness in them would not want to race against nothing but the FATEST even if that means sitting back and watching your cars get "DISHRAGGED". I did, still do, it drives me insane!!! But that's what drives me to continue on, and not to quit, some day I'll stop being on the receiving end of the Business Stick and be the one swinging that sucker!!! I hope noone gets offended by my observations on this matter, especially our mentor Daddio!!! Take care,DerbyDad4Hire said:
Spark
I like Opa's idea of just putting a number next to the the racer's name indicating how many years he has been league racing. This would make it easy for a racer to see how they compare with others of similar experience and still not require creating another class or complicating things.
I don't think it would be very productive to have a class requiring using the axle slots, no cant, kit axles, etc. To me, that is going backwards.
With all the advice and information available on this forum, a newby can get up to a decent speed pretty quick.
I don't think it would be very productive to have a class requiring using the axle slots, no cant, kit axles, etc. To me, that is going backwards.
With all the advice and information available on this forum, a newby can get up to a decent speed pretty quick.
OK, let's keep it simple, just add a digit somewhere that says how long in league racing. Maybe add a Y (Youth) for those under 18. No trophy's or special races. Just something everyone can look at as they see the results.
OK, John ???
OK, John ???
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I still believe it would be a moniker that bears very little significance. An asterisk makes sense for a rookie in the league, but who's to say how much experience is involved. I'm just going to have to agree to disagree on that one. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
P.S. I'm Kinser Racing not Kinser Racing (2),(3),(4) or whatever you want to call it. /images/boards/smilies/crazy.gif
P.S. I'm Kinser Racing not Kinser Racing (2),(3),(4) or whatever you want to call it. /images/boards/smilies/crazy.gif
When we look at the results, especially compared to new guys or Rookies, it will provide inspiration all the way around.
If I am an R or Zero, and worm my way up, seeing me pass up some 3's and 4's really makes me dig in. Last year, whenever one of my cars beat John, Glen, or some of the real pro's, it provided just that much more incentive.
Conversely, next year I would be a 2 I think. If I see rookies or Youth passing me up, it would really make me want to bear down.
Maybe that's just my personality, but that's what I would want to see.
If I am an R or Zero, and worm my way up, seeing me pass up some 3's and 4's really makes me dig in. Last year, whenever one of my cars beat John, Glen, or some of the real pro's, it provided just that much more incentive.
Conversely, next year I would be a 2 I think. If I see rookies or Youth passing me up, it would really make me want to bear down.
Maybe that's just my personality, but that's what I would want to see.
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OPARENNEN said:
Doesn't the placing system already do this?
Doesn't a lack of a podium finish make you want to bear down?
Doesn't the lack of a 1st place finish make you want to bear down?
How about the lack of a track record?
I have set my sights on breaking into the 2.96's in Street Stock before summer break and I think I can do it.
These are the numbers that motivate me. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif
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