Common Ground?

[Quicktimederby]

+1

Guys, I think that was directed at people who work behind the scenes to tear down what John and his crew have built. Not Bulldog. He's a good Dawg!

 

[BlewBYu]

Then my bad! I guess I just read it wrong. My apologies.

 

[Kinser Racing]

Guys, I think that was directed at people who work behind the scenes to tear down what John and his crew have built. Not Bulldog. He's a good Dawg!

I believe that's exactly what John was addressing.

 

[BulldogRacing]

Everything is all good! I love Pine Wood Derby, Blew, I'm very new just like you and we were not part of what John is referring to. John has been nothing but great to me as a new guy looking to get started in pinewood derby. I have received no special treatment from John but I do consider him a friend. I have been to multiple live events, I have watched close to how things are run from how boxes are opened and organized, how cars are weighed in, how cars are staged, how cars are pre-staged, how cars are retrieved. I have seen John and Kinser and Dennis and Jole use extreme professionalism in every way. The way new guys are treated at a live race is great!!! I met our new racer from Idaho, letem run, at a race and John was his biggest fan, so was Kinser. I saw and met so many veteran racers at MA's and I believe all of them would say that the races are not contingent upon who is treated better or what parts are run. I have also run proxy at quite a few races now, I have watched live and had very close times and treatment running proxy at NPWDRL. I believe and hope all leauges are run this way as I believe all of them want to continue to grow. Some of the top racers run their own parts. Some run parts from different venders. I have been trying to make my own wheels since I started, I have a hard time racing in as many classes as i would like due to funds so I thought I would save $ and cut my own, it's flat out tough to be competitive on second rate equipment, but I'm always training. I don't feel my cars are treated any different when i run my own stuff, they just suck to begin with, lol. I would like to see a Nationals race that did include all the racers in the Nation. I would like to see common classes that defined PWD as a constant. I would like a hard core competitiveness between leagues but not hate or hard feelings. I don't know what happened to cause the pain but I do know we all love to race, I do think our sport would grow and all would be blessed if the bad feelings were set aside and leagues came together once a year to go heads up! I only have my experience to go from and so far I've met first class guys here and guys who are willing to admit they like to play with toy cars.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

Maybe you just need to go about it a different way. Instead of trying things that have been tried before and failed, try something new.

Setup a BASX race at MA, invite racers to represent their favorite league, then run the race, and in addition to the typical race, also award points to each league "team", and award the best league something big, like everyone on that team gets their entry fee returned.

Do something to draw racers in, make them want to beat our league.

Just my two cents.

 

[561 racing]

Greg and the rest of us are pretty busy on the scout side to add an additional race, as it is we have that race already with John being there, but no one else will come, which is a shame.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

That's why MA is nearly the perfect venue, it's neutral ground, and many guys are already running races at the event. Just use the BASX or Street Stock race that's already being run as a Special Super Bowl of Pinewood Derby Racing Event.

Mark the cars with red, blue, or green labels depending on League Team, run the race like you normally would.

Give the top ten cars of each team points based on their finishing spot, and then award a giant 5 foot trophy to a representative of the winning league team.

Tell them they need to bring the trophy back next year to defend their championship.

It should be a put up, or shut up event.

So really, you aren't adding a race, just making it more important to win in the existing race as a league.

If only NPWDRL shows up, well, at least you tried.

 

[bracketracer]

I like the idea of color coding the cars in some way to identify which league they're representing.
I'm not sure that you need an actual trophy to hand out, maybe a traveling virtual trophy to be displayed on the winning league's home page?
I think you'd need to have live reps from each league handling their own cars to minimise the whining.
How about if you set up a NPWDRL paddock, an APR paddock, a PDDR paddock, etc, where each league's live rep could organise their cars and bring them to the common staging area as needed to race. Car numbers would start with a letter, N for NPWDRL entries, A for APR racers, P for PDDR, etc so you would know where to find each car if one was not in the staging lanes. The league rep would be responsible for bringing their league's entries to the common staging area at the appropriate time and retrieving their cars from a table near the finish line. Live racers stage their own cars, proxy racers need to designate a surrogate. It'd be a huge job to pull off, worthy of the title of NATIONALS.
What could possibly go wrong? Lol

The classes would have to be an even number from each league's rules so no league has a "home rules advantage" in the overall standings. Many racers have optimised their cars for their home league's rules and are loathe to give up any perceived advantage by changing their combo. Obviously, racers would need to enter several classes with rules they're not familar with to be able to win the overall thus making it a challenge.
Now, how to split the proceeds. To encourage big turnouts I think each league operator should retain their participant's entry fees less an even share of the venue fees. That way, if your league only sends in ten cars you just travelled to Omaha for $100 which wouldn't likely cover your share of the venue fee. So you better make sure your own league sends an army of cars.
Now's who's up for that challenge?

 

[561 racing]

Sorry got to disagree about the trophy and points for each league as this would only drive us farther apart, plus what do you do with the racers who race multiple leagues. There is a National race already, our goal should be to get others to join in and race together.

 

[zigzag]

nm

 

[CHR Racing]

I think this is a dead issue at this point. Guys should enter races in whatever PWD league or leagues they see fit and have fun. Plenty of great builders in NPWDRL, and no need to bring others in to validate our level of competition.

 

[TRE]

These are the fastest puds in the biz right here...

 

[BulldogRacing]

Find the League you love and support the crap out of it. -Quick Time

Racing 2 leagues is tough tough, because that means having 2 sets of cars, due to conflicting dates.- Gravity X

I don't have the time and energy to race multiple leagues, and many who try to race multi get burned out pretty quick and stop racing all together. - Quick Time

I am going to take the approach of just trying to be as positive about this hobby as I can be, -Zeeb

Enjoy this hobby and support it and make it better. DD4H

Plenty of great builders in NPWDRL,- CHR

These are the fastest puds in the biz right here... -TRE

So I believe there was a lot of good feedback. I don't mean to bring up a issue that has been brought forward before, I was still in the womb of PWD bending axles and using graphite at that time. I had intentions of sending a few cars into APR this month to get more racing in but have a new game plan. I realized that many of you who have been doing this much longer then me have made some points that apply to my situation. I am just a blue collar guy with limited extra funds. I believe in good tools and good parts but I do as much as I can myself. I saw that if I shipped a few cars to a different league I would be spending about 30 bucks extra per month on shipping, this would pay for 3 extra classes for me at NPWDRL. I also do appreciate the guys who race more leagues because i can compare my finishes against each builder and get a rough Idea of where I might place. I also want to focus on less cars and do amazing at them, this race I sent in 7 cars and holy cow it's a lot of work. I will support the heck out of NPWDRL but I hope the other leagues and John can come to a consensuses that will bring us together at nationals! I do believe Tre is correct " These are the fastest puds in the biz right here..." -TRE And Tre, when i beat you you'll be my PUD!!!

 

[Bullet]

Sorry got to disagree about the trophy and points for each league as this would only drive us farther apart, plus what do you do with the racers who race multiple leagues. There is a National race already, our goal should be to get others to join in and race together.

I agree with this disagreement...lol I think pitting league against league would probably be a bad idea at this point. In the future if everyone is amicable, this could be done with a good nature to it possibly.

John had a good and wise note that stuck with me when I read it...

" It is a PINEWOOD DERBY RACE. Nobody ever died of shame from losing one."

I find myself on occasion not wanting to send a car if I feel it doesn't have a good chance to win. /images/boards/smilies/rolleyes.gif I should just be sending in cars and supporting the league. Sometimes things just happen with these cars...Brian handled his little "streak" like a true champ and I give him even more respect for that. /images/boards/smilies/wink.gif

 

[derby freak]

Just give everyone a trophy

 

[Guest]

Let's face it both leagues make sure there races are on or about the same date's that's why there are only 30 or so builders at each race if the races are spaced out a little both leagues would prosper.

 

[zeebzob]

Let's face it both leagues make sure there races are on or about the same date's that's why there are only 30 or so builders at each race if the races are spaced out a little both leagues would prosper.

I don't know if I agree that they make sure they are on the same date, I think a lot of it is coincidence. There are typically only 4 Saturdays in any given month, so even if the dates were a week apart, there is still not enough time for shipping unless you ship directly from one league to another. The dates would have to be spaced two weeks apart (That's why I chose October 3rd for the Zeebzob Speed Shop race).
What I am sure of is that there is no official communication between the leagues. That's the first thing that would need to happen.

 

[Guest]

Let's face it both leagues make sure there races are on or about the same date's that's why there are only 30 or so builders at each race if the races are spaced out a little both leagues would prosper.

I don't know if I agree that they make sure they are on the same date, I think a lot of it is coincidence. There are typically only 4 Saturdays in any given month, so even if the dates were a week apart, there is still not enough time for shipping unless you ship directly from one league to another. The dates would have to be spaced two weeks apart (That's why I chose October 3rd for the Zeebzob Speed Shop race).
What I am sure of is that there is no official communication between the leagues. That's the first thing that would need to happen.

 

[aircooled]

For me I see Mid-America as the perfect place for both leagues to compete. Supporting both leagues all year can get to be expensive with the different rules. We have a very good thing here at NPWDRL, the cars are always pushing the limit and there is no other place which is so open and willing to help folks improve. When the Scouts start racing again this is the place the Dad's come if they want to be
fast/win, that says a lot!!! My hat is off to John, for starting the NPWDRL and all he does!!!

 

[Guest]

Zeeb Point well taken but a little more effort on both parts wouldn't hurt they are both excellent places to race.