Drilled cant for DFW?

[Vitamin K]

So last year, which was the first year that I'd built our family cars a 3-wheel rail-runners, I drilled the rears with negative cant and drilled a straight hole for the DFW and used a bent axle to achieve both positive cant and toe-in.

What I experienced was that tiny twists of the axle were /extremely/ sensitive, and it was very easy to go too far in one direction or the other.

What I'm considering this year is to drill the DFW with positive cant and use an axle that's less bent, and only rely on the bend for toe-in. That way I'll only be adjusting for one dimension instead of two.

How do you guys prefer to do things? Any pitfalls with what I'm considering?

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I bend my DFW to where the Axle barely falls into the wheel where I dont have to apply any pressure. Think about what you're saying when you say, "you're adjusting for one dimension instead of two". You're basically saying you're willing to sacrifice tread to surface contact (more friction) so you can adjust the steer easier. I will agree, the more bend the more touchy it is to adjust the steer. But I would rather spend more time on adjusting steer with minimal tread surface contact than have a wheel that has more friction, but easy to adjust.

Also, do you have the "K" house groove in your axles? This makes adjusting the steer a lot easier.

 

[Vitamin K]

I bend my DFW to where the Axle barely falls into the wheel where I dont have to apply any pressure. Think about what you're saying when you say, "you're adjusting for one dimension instead of two". You're basically saying you're willing to sacrifice tread to surface contact (more friction) so you can adjust the steer easier. I will agree, the more bend the more touchy it is to adjust the steer. But I would rather spend more time on adjusting steer with minimal tread surface contact than have a wheel that has more friction, but easy to adjust.

I guess I'm a little bit confused by what you mean, when you say I'm sacrificing tread-to-surface contact. Since I'll be drilling the DFW at a permanently fixed angle, the tread-to-surface contact is, likewise, set to be on the edge of the wheel. So the wheel still ends up canted in at the bottom, it's just that the only thing the bent nail is used for is the toe-in.

Or maybe I'm missing something here? My ignorance is pretty vast.

Also, do you have the "K" house groove in your axles? This makes adjusting the steer a lot easier.

Sadly, I do not cut the K-House. I would love to use this modification, but it is technically at odds with how our Pack/District rules are phrased, and I don't want to give them a chance to DQ my son's car.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

NEW BUILDER WARNING.

I drill a positive cant for the DFW axle with only 1/2 degree bend in the axle itself. Very easy to fine tune the steer, but, it also makes you set the steer on the edge where I have seen my cars "wiggle" in the inside lanes.

 

[ngyoung]

There is an older thread where 5kids used a delrin rod similar to how Royal rangers use a wood dowel. Drill a straight hole for the dowel. Insert dowel and drill the axle hole in the dowel at an angle. You then can also cut an access hole in the underside to spin the dowel which will tune the steer of the axle. Once you find your sweet spot you can cover the hole. This allows you to keep the axle straight.

 

[The Iceman]

So last year, which was the first year that I'd built our family cars a 3-wheel rail-runners, I drilled the rears with negative cant and drilled a straight hole for the DFW and used a bent axle to achieve both positive cant and toe-in.

What I experienced was that tiny twists of the axle were /extremely/ sensitive, and it was very easy to go too far in one direction or the other.

What I'm considering this year is to drill the DFW with positive cant and use an axle that's less bent, and only rely on the bend for toe-in. That way I'll only be adjusting for one dimension instead of two.

How do you guys prefer to do things? Any pitfalls with what I'm considering?

Hey Vitamin, your right on track! I did a complete 'How To' under building tips called 'Touchy Steer Fix'. (its not totally right but very close(I need to update it) I split my total bend in half. So say you want to run 8 degrees where 10 is about max of only bending the axle alone. I would put 4 in the axle and 4 in the drill job. Makes it a lot easier to adjust!

 

[Vitamin K]

Glad to hear I'm not crazy!

Well, I am still crazy, but at least not about this... /images/boards/smilies/wink.gif

Hey Vitamin, your right on track! I did a complete 'How To' under building tips called 'Touchy Steer Fix'. (its not totally right but very close(I need to update it) I split my total bend in half. So say you want to run 8 degrees where 10 is about max of only bending the axle alone. I would put 4 in the axle and 4 in the drill job. Makes it a lot easier to adjust!

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I bend my DFW to where the Axle barely falls into the wheel where I dont have to apply any pressure. Think about what you're saying when you say, "you're adjusting for one dimension instead of two". You're basically saying you're willing to sacrifice tread to surface contact (more friction) so you can adjust the steer easier. I will agree, the more bend the more touchy it is to adjust the steer. But I would rather spend more time on adjusting steer with minimal tread surface contact than have a wheel that has more friction, but easy to adjust.

I guess I'm a little bit confused by what you mean, when you say I'm sacrificing tread-to-surface contact. Since I'll be drilling the DFW at a permanently fixed angle, the tread-to-surface contact is, likewise, set to be on the edge of the wheel. So the wheel still ends up canted in at the bottom, it's just that the only thing the bent nail is used for is the toe-in.

Or maybe I'm missing something here? My ignorance is pretty vast.

Also, do you have the "K" house groove in your axles? This makes adjusting the steer a lot easier.

Sadly, I do not cut the K-House. I would love to use this modification, but it is technically at odds with how our Pack/District rules are phrased, and I don't want to give them a chance to DQ my son's car.

Ignore what I said, I missed where you'd said you're drilling a positive cant.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

There is an older thread where 5kids used a delrin rod similar to how Royal rangers use a wood dowel. Drill a straight hole for the dowel. Insert dowel and drill the axle hole in the dowel at an angle. You then can also cut an access hole in the underside to spin the dowel which will tune the steer of the axle. Once you find your sweet spot you can cover the hole. This allows you to keep the axle straight.

Link this thread please this sounds ingenious! but then again it's Scott so of course it is

 

[ngyoung]

I can't remember which thread it is in any more. Maybe Scott can comment himself about it again. I will try to dig for it. I think you could find it if you search "delrin".

 

[5KidsRacing]

I talked about it somewhere, but I don’t remember where…

I drill a straight larger hole for the DFW to fit a piece of Delrin… so maybe like a #23 (.154”) hole for a 5/32” (.156”) piece of delrin rod. I cut off a piece of delrin rod around ½” long and using my Silver Bullet I drill a canted hole in the end and in the center of one end of the rod. On the other side of the delrin rod a I drill a small hole all the way through the delrin and perpendicular to the axle hole. This hole lets air out so I can install my axle and it is also used to adjust steer. Now when I install this in the body I have a straight canted hole a “X” degrees (depending on pin I used with SB). I drill a hole in the bottom of my car that exposes the end of the ½” long piece of delrin. I reach in through this hole and use the same small drill bit that I used to drill the hole to adjust steering.

With this method my DFW axle is straight and I can adjust the entire DFW delrin axle body out or in to center my car over the rail.

 

[5KidsRacing]

 

[BulldogRacing]

Where do you get the rod?

 

[5KidsRacing]

www.onlinemetals.com or McMaster-Carr

 

[Kinser Racing]

Now you just have to figure out how to put splines in the rod and have it inserted into the threads of a stationary screw (like a guitar tuner) to really fine tune the steer. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif

 

[bracketracer]

Now you just have to figure out how to put splines in the rod and have it inserted into the threads of a stationary screw (like a guitar tuner) to really fine tune the steer. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif

No need for that! With the leverage you get from the tiny drill bit "handle" you can make very fine adjustments to the steer easily! And the steer adjustments don't affect the wheel to body gap like turning a bent axle could.

 

[GravityX]

No need for that! With the leverage you get from the tiny drill bit "handle" you can make very fine adjustments to the steer easily! And the steer adjustments don't affect the wheel to body gap like turning a bent axle could.

I can see that. "Micro-tuning"....

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

Scott you're a genius!

 

[bracketracer]

No need for that! With the leverage you get from the tiny drill bit "handle" you can make very fine adjustments to the steer easily! And the steer adjustments don't affect the wheel to body gap like turning a bent axle could.

I can see that. "Micro-tuning"....

Ya had to go there, didn't ya? Lol

 

[GravityX]

No need for that! With the leverage you get from the tiny drill bit "handle" you can make very fine adjustments to the steer easily! And the steer adjustments don't affect the wheel to body gap like turning a bent axle could.

I can see that. "Micro-tuning"....

Ya had to go there, didn't ya? Lol