Dry Lube?

[tmeyer]

Graphite can be very good, but it still won't beat oil head to head. If you use graphite use John's RED ROCKET. It's very slick stuff by itself. Polish and burnish the graphite in to the RED ROCKET on both the wheels and axles.

Original post by Pony Express

Do you let the Red Rocket dry first like we do with the oil process and then burnish in the graphite, or do you burnish in the graphite while the Red Rocket is still wet right after a fine layer of it (Red Rocket) has been polished onto the plastic?

 

[OPARENNEN]

Somewhere on this forum are lots of posts re. Is oil dry lub. Don't remember the rational, but there was one.
Main BSA reason is that oil will foul the track.
As for me, over the past three years, we always used oil, in packs all over the country.
Here is what I do:
Polish nails with DD4H axle polish after sanding with wet sandpaper 2000, 3000, 8000 & 12000, then Brasso mix (85% Brasso, 15 % powder compound used by glass companies to polish mirrors). Then Jig-a-loo.
Wheels; DD4H #1, then Red Rocket
Mount wheels with ONLY 2 drops per wheel B4 entering nail into wheel. Spin and wipe off any excess oil (shouldn't be any w/ only 2 drops) and let everything dry for a couple of days.
Use Clear Teflon fingernail polish on the car's entrance holes.
Carefully put Graphite on DFW outer edge's (both inside and outside) of wheel, 1/4' up, but nowhere near the axle or wheel hole. This is to cut friction on a rail-rider. Same with rear wheels, but not so important if mounted so they never touch the track.
Set drift (steer) to 12 inches over 8 feet. I have no idea for 4 or 6 foot ramps, but remember, the curve between start and finishe, especially between 4 and 8 feet is a significant curve. So don't cut 12 inches in half to 6, that would be too much. Maybe 4".

The hottest pwd area for us was AZ. Even though we won, in Council, 2nd and 3d were within 1/100, with bodies from either Jewkes or DD4H.
And it was obvious, that the dad's were very very savvy PW builders.

Any other readers, I have posted this similar before, and got lots of comments, some anti (some even angry), lots of pro. But in areas where council/District races are seriously heavy, it is obvious that with all the above, we were competitive, but just barely. That's the way the world runs.

With grandkids, I have them do as much work on all this as possible, emphasizing that meticulous care on the smallest details is what is important both in PWD and in life. After they leave Weblos, I have a speech where I liken focus and perseverance on the path to Eagle. At this point, we have 5 Eagle children, and 10 Eagle grandchildren, with two more this summer.

 

[jeffreyl7]

Well, I started this thread last season when our District scrapped the use of a really nice Best Track for an old refurbished wooden track made by a cabinet maker who is now (uninformed) the District PWD Chairman. Our District had been using an aluminum track for over 10 years and to "make it fair" they went back to the wooden track that had been used for the previous 8 years before the aluminum track. As a result, the chairman amended the rules allowing only graphite. I have three sons in Scouts and I am an Eagle Scout. One of my boys has won the Pack every year since 2008 and had won the District 4 out of the last 5 years. Last year was our first use of graphite. We prepped using all the suggestions from this message board and won last year on the wooden track. It was obvious my boys used graphite because their paint jobs were ruined. The track was actually much better than I had expected, but it did not have much of a curve, more gradual than an aluminum track. My two younger boys finished 1 & 3, the oldest had crossed over the previous spring. After seeing the other cars in the finals basically clean, I felt very fortunate my boys came out on top. (the weigh-in inspection is a joke, they only check dimensions and for BSA wheels not closely for lube). As for this year, who knows? The boy who finished second had a spotless car, but he accused us of cheating. All the top 5 cars were very close. I suspect we will get beat this year due to oil. But, in the spirit of the published rules, we will continue to use the graphite the way you all have suggested. We have raced a few oil cars in the NPWDRL in '12, but not in '13. It would be nice to know how the graphite process would do against the best cars in the league. I know there is a difference, but curious what type of times they would do on a 42' track. Our Pack has a 35' Best Track with a Laser starting gate, a few inches in front of the noses of the cars. They were turning 2.150-2.180 times on Saturday and top speeds of 229.0-229.9. I don't understand the top speed calculation. Both cars raced in 18 heats and never once were in the same heat, go figure? My Bear's car edged his Web II brothers car by 4/100 in accumulated time according to the software our Pack uses. In testing at home, I never let the boys cars race against each other and I hide the times from each other. I do not want a battle at home. I have never seen two cars that are so close in times as far as the cars we have build over the years, it was amazing. We will continue to add graphite every few days and run them once down the track to keep them fresh. We also pack them in zip lock bags in a custom fit foam box like what DDH sells. Is there any other suggestions for keeping these cars tuned for 3 more weeks? Our District race isn't until 2/8. Thanks for any advise forthcoming.

 

[MBRacing]

(the weigh-in inspection is a joke, they only check dimensions and for BSA wheels not closely for lube).

I was told our district is the same way, but I have never been so I don't know what to expect. Basically weigh and measure and that was it.

 

[speed bump]

Sounds like our rules and weigh in. Length and BSA on the outside of tires = Good to go!
I have been doing scouts for years and never seen a car taking apart. Makes one wonder sometimes should u do the right thing or not? We run 1 gram wheels and it makes a lot of difference in speed. For axles I would go with derbydads they are the best for sure. If u are looking at them just get the ones with bsa points on them. Nobody can tell you that you did not groove them or make them that way.

 

[MBRacing]

even the stainless ones..?

 

[speed bump]

yep I would use them for sure. Polish them good and spray pledge on them. Some light wheels and u will b set. Good luck brother!!

 

[Falcon777]

For what it is worth, helped build 4 rail runner cars this year - all similar wedges and all stock and holes drilled with TSB. Three had polished and waxed bores, jig, oil, on standard BSA 89 axles polished and deburred and standard unmodified BSA wheels right out of the box. My daughters car who raced in the family race, has SS grooved axles, dynasty light wheels, DD4H fenders, and prepped the same, and a slightly longer wheel base. To my surprise, my daughters car finished roughly just over a 1/2 car length ahead of the others using heavier stock wheels and axles. All the cars were the top four fastest cars. The wheel bore prep to me is the key. All the cars beat similar cars with ultralite wheels and I am sure grooved axles and most likely oil. But no one I am sure, took the time to polish and wax the bores. I was blown away on how fast a set of stock wheels and axles can be when properly prepped. And we went into the race without any fear of being scrutinized in regard to buying shaved wheels and modified axles. Stock wheels and axles can be extremely fast with the proper prep.

 

[MBRacing]

I worked up a new set of BSA box axles that came out really well. Maybe I should just run them, and the only difference from pack to district would be in the wheels. Our pack race i ran the 4 wheels that came in the box, wiht minimal prep.

I think there could be a fine line on wheel weight where, heavier might be slower of the start but the heavier might carry more speed on the flat because rough spots, joints or other mishaps wiht the track might not upset them as much?.

 

[speed bump]

Light wheels all the way!! no questions about it. good luck!

 

[Red Devil Racing]

I may have missed it, After sanding axles etc. How much pledge do you use? And then do you use graphite after ?

 

[speed bump]

spray the pledge on the axles and let them sit for 45 min to dry it will leave the good stuff on there and then put axle in tire and then graphite it up. Do not do this with OIL.

 

[MOFAST]

Well, I want to stay above the law, so to speak, so we will truly use John's graphite products. I think we are the reason, they are trying to even up the field, because our cars the last 4 yrs have been winning consistently by 1-3 car lengths. One of my three boys have won the district crown every year since '08 and we nearly had a sweep last year. My boys truly build the cars despite the whispers and even outright complaints. We build three cars a piece every year and tune them as best we can. I sent a car to John to tune and we use that car as our gauge. I know it will happen, that we will get beat this year by oil, but we will be able to hold our heads high knowing we followed the rules. I am hoping our tooling, design and experience will get us into the finals. We have never raced with graphite or on a wooden track, so it will be a whole new experience. We have a system of building cars that we learned from all you guys on this board. We want to thank all of you for all the info and for our successes. We have sent our cars to some NPWDRL races over the last few years. We have a lot of fun watching over the web feeds. We will not send any of the graphite cars, but I am trying my hand at building a couple of extended WB cars that hopefully will be ready by the Feb 16 event. Thanks again.

Good Racing today! We raced against them in the finals today and they were super fast! I'll let him tell his success stories. We raced with graphite also and stock wheels and axles. Like you we got the extra close inspection today. Awesome job!