Eliminator help needed

[tmeyer]

Guys,

I would really appreciate your ideas on what happened to my Eliminator car "Mean Green" in the MOTM finals.

I had a fairly competitive car though out all three of the MOTM Qualifiers.

My times fell off tremendously in the Finals. I did not reprep every time between the Qualifier races and it did not seem to effect the times.

I did not reprep for the Finals. Between testing and racing, the car had approximately 35 passes on the last reprep and testing went well.
Is 35 passes too many on a reprep?

The temperature where I live in Wisconsin was below zero during the time that I shipped my cars to Utah.
Could that have had anything to do with it?

I did not see much of the race from the live feed. I mostly saw just the times as the race progressed, so I do not know if my car was wiggling or not.

Please respond.

Thanks,

Todd

 

[W&K Creations]

Todd

I had a similar experience but with my SS bluemangp....it was pretty fast coming off the third qualifier so I hesitated and didn't reprep it for the finals and it ran really slow relatively speaking...

I know the track times at the finals were definitely slower than what they were when the track was at John's place so comparing times from the qualifiers and this one is hard....I know some people (us proxy guys online) said there was about a .008 second differential this time around with the cars running about this much slower...but even that is a estimation (although I think its pretty close)....

If you did use that differential and subtracted that then your eliminator times would be in the 2.904xxx range which is around what it ran the first qualifier. The second qualifier was awesome though as you ran in the 2.019 range...

Once the video comes out we can all look at how the cars ran....but based on my limited experience, the few cars I had that I didn't reprep, lasted 2 races worth of runs but then started losing speed. I know others have not repreped for much much longer without a fall off but for me, 2 races is the most ill go without a reprep for next year, unless I just run out of time, and if possible, ill reprep between each race...

USPS was a major pain this time around and certainly it is much colder weather so maybe it does have an effect....unsure....my cars took a full 6 days to get there...who knows what was going on to those boxes or where they were during that time....

Anyway just my two cents.....I have to similarly figure out what happened with my SS car LOL

If I find anything when I relook at my cars when they get back ill let you know as well!

WK

 

[tmeyer]

I appreciate your thoughts WK.

 

[bracketracer]

Wes, wouldn't your cars get cold every time you send them? I assumed they were flown to the mainland and it would get pretty cool down in the cargo hold?

I'm not so sure the track was off at all now that the times are posted. I believe the Unlimited I sent ran the same times as the first qualifier- 2.8847 in August and 2.8844 in December. I didn't touch the car other than changing the stickers. I was hoping they were off after seeing my SS car run....but the pros were turning low 2.960's from what I saw later. Are bearing cars not as affected as the others? I don't have enough experience to know.

 

[Quicktimederby]

I don't know that the track was off .008, I think around .002-.004 would'nt be out of range though. The track could be off 5 min. and it wouldn't matter because it would be the same for everyone. I think a good way to check if your car was off is look at previous months and see who you ran close to, than compare to the finials. The mail could affect it huge though also. WK's new street rod came in with a rear wheel and axle rolling around in the bottom of the box. You just never know with the shipping.

 

[Kinser Racing]

IMHO you should always re-prep for the big game. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[GravityX]

BINGO to that and a big +1!!!

IMHO you should always re-prep for the big game. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[zeebzob]

QT is right. Too many people get hung up on the numbers. It doesnt matter if the track is slower or faster than the previous month, its slower or faster for everyone. Personally, it looked a tad slow, but again, like QT said, only a couple thousandths, and that's pretty dang good after having to set the track up in another location.
I do think that the cold temps can adversly affect the performance. I think there may be a condensation factor, which most likely does not do the cars any favors.

 

[tmeyer]

It would not have mattered to me what the times were for my car as long as I would have still been competitive.

Up until now my mindset was to not reprep if the car was running well.

Maybe 35 passes is too many without a reprep.

I am still inexperienced in this game and have much to learn hence the reason for this topic. This may be a lesson learned for me.

Thanks to everyone that responded.

 

[W&K Creations]

Thanks for info QT about my new SR...that darn thing was all over...I felt bad for the cars next to it....I really need to build a better box for my SR so that it doesn't move all over....I thought I set it in pretty well but I guess it really wasn't....

I know one tip I made sure I followed for this race for those razor wheels....I made sure that in the box, they didn't move at all......in just my short time in this class ive already broken two of those wheels and each time was like dying a little inside....

Im gona follow what was recommended here as well and reprep before each race....or certainly at least before a big race....

WK

 

[kpendle]

My SS control car lost .0084 this month from November. The only thing done was to pull off the sticker with the car number. It has not been prepped or tuned since Nationals. This was its 5th race on this prep.

2.9836 for its maiden run at nationals

For MOM it ran:

2.9767 August
2.9743 September
2.9748 November
2.9832 December

It ran and finished around the same guys as usual for the most part.

My street pro lost .0053 but seemed to finish a little better than November in relation to some other guys. I tuned on it some but did not remove the wheels, reprep, or do any major changes since the original prep prior to the September race.

2.9574 September
2.9446 November made some changes to weight placement and adjusted guide pin
2.9499 December Took the previous changes a little farther

My SS was further off the lead in December of the fastest car in the prelims. My Street Pro was just barely a little closer to the fastest speed for December of the street pro finals.

I would guess speeds were off .0045-.0085. I probably lean towards the higher end based on how my cars finished in relation to others, how far they were off the lead, and their history.

I am not hung up on speeds but without a test track and relying on race results to gauge how my cars are running I like to have a feel for how the track is running. I look at my cars in relation to others but without knowing what others have done to their cars I rely more on what my unchanged baseline car is running and how my others are in relation to it. Even then there are so many factors it is still sometimes a guess to how things I am trying are working.

In addition for my test cars I use plug and play blocks so the amount of drift is eliminated as much as possible as a factor in how they run. Of my 2 test cars this month one I ran with what I believed would be a prep problem which in fact was a problem. It lost .0211. My second car lost .0065. In relation to my baseline car it would seemed to have improved but since I ran my other car with a suspected problem it is harder to tell. Normally the 2 test cars would be prepped identical but this time I deviated on one. In hindsight that was a poor choice.

To me for racing how the track is running does not matter. We are all racing the same track. For testing new things how the track is running is more important to me to evaluate how things are working. Now if I just had a test track and somewhere to put it the race would be a race and testing would happen on the test track. But unless I hit the mega millions that will not happen.

To sum it up I think most agree the track was slower. Slower does not really change the race results and the winner was pretty clear. But how much slower is debatable. There are indicators that could lead one to believe the numbers QT gave as accurate but based on other indicators it could have been greater. I am certainly no expert and was not there. So my opinion is just that. But I would be very interested in other opinions especially in regards to cars that were ran with no changes and how they performed.

 

[bracketracer]

QT is right. Too many people get hung up on the numbers. It doesnt matter if the track is slower or faster than the previous month, its slower or faster for everyone. Personally, it looked a tad slow, but again, like QT said, only a couple thousandths, and that's pretty dang good after having to set the track up in another location. I do think that the cold temps can adversly affect the performance. I think there may be a condensation factor, which most likely does not do the cars any favors.

Zeeb, the guys that don't have tracks make changes month to month and need to evaluate if the change helped or hurt their speed so they can decide their next move. If the track was "fast" or "slow" it would make a difference to them. As far as affecting the outcome of the race, no, it does not matter because we all raced the same track.

 

[zeebzob]

QT is right. Too many people get hung up on the numbers. It doesnt matter if the track is slower or faster than the previous month, its slower or faster for everyone. Personally, it looked a tad slow, but again, like QT said, only a couple thousandths, and that's pretty dang good after having to set the track up in another location. I do think that the cold temps can adversly affect the performance. I think there may be a condensation factor, which most likely does not do the cars any favors.

Zeeb, the guys that don't have tracks make changes month to month and need to evaluate if the change helped or hurt their speed so they can decide their next move. If the track was "fast" or "slow" it would make a difference to them. As far as affecting the outcome of the race, no, it does not matter because we all raced the same track.

Wrong.
Just compare it to other cars.

 

[Kinser Racing]

I agree with what Zeeb and QT have said.

When it comes to runs on your prep, yes they can run a lot. It's usually the time since you preped that effects it. I've gone two races with a prep before and there wasn't a lot of difference, three races on the same prep is to much. IMO

When it comes to prepping that's where you can find some speed, between a prep and tune, so prepping before each race is a good thing, again IMO.

 

[kpendle]

QT is right. Too many people get hung up on the numbers. It doesnt matter if the track is slower or faster than the previous month, its slower or faster for everyone. Personally, it looked a tad slow, but again, like QT said, only a couple thousandths, and that's pretty dang good after having to set the track up in another location. I do think that the cold temps can adversly affect the performance. I think there may be a condensation factor, which most likely does not do the cars any favors.

Zeeb, the guys that don't have tracks make changes month to month and need to evaluate if the change helped or hurt their speed so they can decide their next move. If the track was "fast" or "slow" it would make a difference to them. As far as affecting the outcome of the race, no, it does not matter because we all raced the same track.

Wrong. Just compare it to other cars.

I say wrong also. Comparing to other cars is one data point. But there is a lot of other data that I see that can help also. If you draw conclusions or make decisions based off only one thing you are limiting your ability to make informed decisions.

Compare to other cars, yes. Just compare to other cars, no.

 

[kpendle]

I agree with what Zeeb and QT have said.

When it comes to runs on your prep, yes they can run a lot. It's usually the time since you preped that effects it. I've gone two races with a prep before and there wasn't a lot of difference, three races on the same prep is to much. IMO

When it comes to prepping that's where you can find some speed, between a prep and tune, so prepping before each race is a good thing, again IMO.

Time since last prep is definitely something that I would think is a factor. My car from nationals has around 6 months of age and has surely gone too long.

Prepping for each race when racing to win is definitely something smart to do. But if you are using races to test then limiting variables is important for me.

I think after looking at times and comparing to other cars that the prep on my SS lost something for finals. It did run fairly consistent until this month in comparison to others so it seems to have lasted 4+ months. Even with the drop off this month it still ran around the same people and finished about the same. My Street pro in comparison to other cars did better but I think the reality is not that I passed them but they may have fell back.

Todd,
Sorry for hijacking your thread.