Fast cars with actual geometry (broken out from BASX thread)

[Vitamin K]

This came up in the BASX thread, so I thought I'd break it off into its own thing. I think there's some profitable discussion to be had, and I don't wish for it to be lost in the debate-flood.

Just a quick note: I'm not personally making a call to action for the creation of a new class. As if I had any right to do that. Rather, I just resonate with some things said, and I'd like to add my own thoughts.

So it started with Lightninboy (It's all your fault, LB!)

Not suggesting this for BASX - but I've been thinking it would be cool to have a class that promoted a variety of body shapes. For example, have a rule that a part of the body must be at least 1.5" high when measured from the ground. More thought would be need to nail down the rules but the idea is to do have something that forces us away from the candy bar shape.

I know SR does that to a degree, but it would be fun to see hand shaped bodies that don't necessarily look like street cars.

It may even force a few of us to start painting cars again.

On second thought ... never mind. Bad idea.

To which I chimed in:

I'd love to see more cars that were fast, but were actually carved into attractive shapes. How to do so in a competitive class would be...tricky though.

Should leagues seek to award some kind of recognition for aesthetics, as well? Maybe this is deserving of its own thread. Pulling it away off topic, here. [smile]

Then Mojo volunteered:

<------ Like this one?

Hand carved, from two pinewood blocks.

LB again:

Yes! However, looking like an actual race car or street car would be optional.

This really strikes a chord with me, because while I appreciate pinewood car performance, I also appreciate aesthetics and creativity. I'm kind of wanting to have the cake and eat it too, because while I like looking at cars that are just for show, something feels kind of sad to me about a car that is never meant to run the track, and run it well.

Street Rod (edit: Not Street Stock) sort of answers this, but I think there's a different art between mounting a pre-formed body, and carving some /original/. Not saying one is superior, just that they are different beasts.

Another example of a pretty car that runs well would be v8dc's "Tigger" car. Tell me that this isn't beautiful. And I've watched it run, too. It is no slouch!

I, personally, was trying to do something similar with my Mid-America entry.



Granted, I didn't manage to execute the performance as well as I might have hoped (as certain MA volunteers have pointed out), and the paint was nowhere near to what I wanted (last minute, late night paint job, FTW). But it sort of underscores what I'm talking about here: Pinewood cars that are meant to /race/, but are actually carved with some geometry. Classes full of candybars and door shims are fun to watch in terms of the times they turn out, but the cars themselves are pretty drab.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

I'll throw this out there -

There is the SR class now. The cars are not "carved" from wood, but the concept I believe is to make something more "car like." I entered the class for the first time at MA, and I can tell you it took me triple the time to build. Maybe, this was because I was new to the class; maybe because it just takes more time. I'm now building another one, but again, I am finding it time-consuming.

What I can say is that the number of cars in the SR class have been limited as compared to the other classes. While I think the craftsmanship of these "carved" cars is borderline of being considered as a work of art, I do not see many investing the time in aesthetics over prep/research. The rules alone have the potential of becoming a nightmare. BASX is evidence of a how difficult it can be defining rules for a simple concept.

Why not race them in SS? It would be unlikely they would win, but it would be outstanding to see them on the track. Like I said, some of those cars are absolutely stunning.

 

[Mojo Racing]

I'll throw this out there -

There is the SR class now. The cars are not "carved" from wood, but the concept I believe is to make something more "car like." I entered the class for the first time at MA, and I can tell you it took me triple the time to build. Maybe, this was because I was new to the class; maybe because it just takes more time. I'm now building another one, but again, I am finding it time-consuming.

What I can say is that the number of cars in the SR class have been limited as compared to the other classes. While I think the craftsmanship of these "carved" cars is borderline of being considered as a work of art, I do not see many investing the time in aesthetics over prep/research. The rules alone have the potential of becoming a nightmare. BASX is evidence of a how difficult it can be defining rules for a simple concept.

Why not race them in SS? It would be unlikely they would win, but it would be outstanding to see them on the track. Like I said, some of those cars are absolutely stunning.

Hey BR,

Yeah, the models are cool, and it is neat how the rules make the cars look like the actual models.

I wish on my car, I only put three times the time into it.

All told, from concept to first run on the track, the Nissan GT 2020 Concept that I carved had more than 80 actual hours of work on it. I started with a picture in May and worked on it through the summer with the race in October.

All told, it turned out VERY cool, and took best design, raising a lot of money for charity. Running? It ran better than my first "best design" car did, but it wasn't top 10.

This year, I will be doing another car, and I have ideas to help it make it down the track faster. I hope they work. LOL

 

[Vitamin K]

I'll throw this out there -

There is the SR class now. The cars are not "carved" from wood, but the concept I believe is to make something more "car like." I entered the class for the first time at MA, and I can tell you it took me triple the time to build. Maybe, this was because I was new to the class; maybe because it just takes more time. I'm now building another one, but again, I am finding it time-consuming.

Yeah, I actually meant to say "Street Rod" in my previous post, but I flubbed and ended up writing "Street Stock." Too many "Street" classes in the NPWDRL! /images/boards/smilies/wink.gif

Here's my take on SRs. SRs are pretty, and they are works of art in their own right. Building a detailed model from a kit and then adapting it to run on a PWD chassis ain't no joke! At the same time, though, it's a different art than what really tickles my fancy. I want to see exotic, creative, hand-shaped cars that are only limited by builder imagination, and not lrestricted to replicas (necessarily) of real world cars.

What I can say is that the number of cars in the SR class have been limited as compared to the other classes. While I think the craftsmanship of these "carved" cars is borderline of being considered as a work of art, I do not see many investing the time in aesthetics over prep/research. The rules alone have the potential of becoming a nightmare. BASX is evidence of a how difficult it can be defining rules for a simple concept.

Why not race them in SS? It would be unlikely they would win, but it would be outstanding to see them on the track. Like I said, some of those cars are absolutely stunning.

Well, like I said, I'm not about to call for a new class. But it's hard to motivate builders to deliberate race in a class where they know they're not going to be in the running for a top spot. I mean, I could run a BASX car in Street Pro if I really wanted to, right?

I do agree that determining a ruleset for this class of cars would be very difficult. It would be hard to mandate what exactly the cutoff point for having enough 'geometry' would be. I don't have any answers there.

 

[CivilWarTalk]

Couldn't you mandate that all cars in this new class have a part of the main body/chassis be 1" by 1" by 2", and leave it up to the builder how to best sculpt the surrounding body to be aerodynamic around this required block section?

On a side note, it would be hilarious to have a tank division requiring at least 6 wheels, a turret and barrel, but that's just me!

 

[Vitamin K]

Couldn't you mandate that all cars in this new class have a part of the main body/chassis be 1" by 1" by 2", and leave it up to the builder how to best sculpt the surrounding body to be aerodynamic around this required block section? On a side note, it would be hilarious to have a tank division requiring at least 6 wheels, a turret and barrel, but that's just me!

Problem is, that by requiring that 'block' section, you'd be limiting some other designs, that might want to concentrate volume around the fenders or something. If there were a simple way to determine minimum body volume, that would be something, but that's a little bit hard to measure and verify!

 

[LightninBoy]

If there were a simple way to determine minimum body volume, that would be something, but that's a little bit hard to measure and verify!

That's exactly right. Its essentially about defining and verifying a minimum volume.

Do you think submerging the cars in water would ruin the prep? (Eureka!!)

 

[Vitamin K]

That's exactly right. Its essentially about defining and verifying a minimum volume.

Do you think submerging the cars in water would ruin the prep? (Eureka!!)

Hehehe, yes, I think fluid displacement, while an accurate measure, presents some problems of its own.

I wonder if there's any tests that could be done simply and reliably that would act as a reasonable proxy for determining body volume?