Frustrating....

renegade said:
All I know Is I am doing something wrong because my cars were dog slow this month.
smile

You should have asked me, I'd have shared that with you!!! /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
 
But do you see the problem in asking how to correct it without being able to see what your doing? I am glad someone has given you some areas to check. As for why I haven't wasn't from lack of wanting too, but if you are doing it like the video says you have all my info.

John Thawley said:
Now... not to bicker or have this conversation deteriorate into an argument, DON'T you think the person is aware, "they must of done something wrong?" Isn't that rather obvious?

John
 
I wouldn't drive myself crazy shooting for 27.1 degrees. If you look at the accuracy of those digital protractors, you'll see there's room for a lot variance right there.
 
John: NO ONE has responded saying "we have the new chipset." CCL did today.

All NPWDRL tracks will have the new chipset.

Regarding oil and your video... never do you say, "if you are having problems, double check..... xxx." No where do describe what the blue stuff does or what it should look like when properly applied and/or dry." Obviously, if there are problems, others have had them and there must be some constant issues to watch out for and/or share. It's an expensive and frustrating process... and one that is not easily reversed or tried again.

If the oil is not working then the wheel or axle is either still dirty or has lint/hair in it or you caked the blue can spray. The jigaloo is very easy to apply but is dangerous for plastic so I do not push it because I know I will have to replace ruined wheels.

So, whether you agree or disagree... as a consumer, your DVD and products FAILED. If you're content to tell the customer "you did something wrong, watch it again," that's your prerogative. But I would think you'd rather have happy and repeat customers. I realize you race too.... but I would hope having MORE happy customers using your products SUCCESSFULLY would be more important. I think a suggested "trouble-shooting" bullet list wouldn't be an unreasonable request... given the cost of the DVD, two step axle polish and a dram of oil. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif I only ask that consider things from the viewpoint of a consumer.

If it failed then it is USER ERROR. My phone line is open and I always support my product. I consider my customers first at EVERY level. That is why you have a DVD and oil to use. I did not have to share any of it. I am finding that with a large customer base it is going to be impossible to keep every single customer happy. I run a performance custom shop. The parts take time and there are a lot of customers. I run the EXACT same parts you do and use the same process you do and it works for me. The problem here is you are not sure if it is working for you or not. You might be faster than everyone here.

I didn't make this post to argue or put anyone down. You folks all seem very nice and appear to be having a good time. BUT... let's be honest, there are continuous (let's call them breakdowns) breakdowns in the growth and progress among leagues and league racing.

We don't APPEAR to be having a good time, we ARE having a good time. The breakdowns are caused by this exact type of posting and are generally done on purpose to stir up drama or controversy. We have not had any issues here. We are not a league. This is a racing circuit built for and around the racers. I am not making accusations but this seems like yet just another attempt to stir up a fight that is commonplace from our competition.

FYI, this is the only site I read and trust. I used to be at P-D-D-R when everyone was there. I do business with Jewkes and I do business with DerbyDad. I don't know why the other board went away... nor do I want to pry. Though this constant turmoil and lack of stability does leave me hesitant to invest in the hobby... fortunately, with my son having another year of scouts, I can justify all of the equipment and the track. He's having fun... so am I. BUT... that's only a 3 month window annually.

So you aren't a member of other boards? There is absolutely NO turmoil here and the fact that 120 cars is a bad month means that this is the most stable pinewood derby has ever been.

My background is racing.... I'm at a racetrack at least 16 times a year. My clients are all racers and race teams and manufacturers. (Audi, Mazda, Cadillac etc.) Going fast and what it takes to go fast aren't foreign concepts to me. And, years ago, I organized RC car racing at the National and World Championship level (26 countries... races as large as 650 entries). I'm fairly well plugged into the racer mentality... from the track to marketing, promoting and manufacturing level.

Taking from your background then I would think you would be shocked at just how much info is given to you for free here.

So... just to be clear, my inquiries are continuously an effort to find relevance and REASONABLE benchmarks. I know tracks differ.... I'm not an idiot. I can see how easy it is to make my own results vary on the same track. I see the times shift throughout the day and night.

But one response here said.... "we were at so and so, the track was level and everything... and it was DOG SLOW." Sorry... my watch doesn't have increments labeled DOG SLOW. Was it 5 seconds slower than NPWDRL's track? 1 second? .050? .010? Someone must have a better handle on the variable.... within reason. If you're saying that two identical (on paper) tracks built level, same slope, same timer chip can be .050 difference - then fine. I'll accept that. However, it seems like a huge difference.

All I'm asking and suggesting is this: Think about your answers to people. "Dog slow" means nothing. "You must have done something wrong," is an insult... I mean, thank you captain obvious.

How can anyone help you if they have no reference point? You are putting down help and responses but not participating. If I see your car then I can help you. I would say after the comments that I would be scared to try and help you for fear it would not be satisfactory.

You guys are racing and others respect what you've accomplished.... when someone asks a question involving .010 of a second, it's typically in search of answer to "what should I be looking for?" If my cars running graphite are .020 faster than oil... there's something happening somewhere. I can't imagine one of you have not experienced a problem that turned out to be a "DUH!" moment.

You want more guys racing.... no one is asking "how do I get faster than you?" But it is fair to ask "how to do I get these expensive, time consuming purchases to work 'as advertised?'" /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

I don't think I'm being unfair.

Neither do I.
 
Very true Jimmy, Just trying to point out why all tracks are different and any slight changes make the times all over the place.
Ken
 
DerbyDad4Hire said:
John: NO ONE has responded saying "we have the new chipset." CCL did today.

All NPWDRL tracks will have the new chipset.

Regarding oil and your video... never do you say, "if you are having problems, double check..... xxx." No where do describe what the blue stuff does or what it should look like when properly applied and/or dry." Obviously, if there are problems, others have had them and there must be some constant issues to watch out for and/or share. It's an expensive and frustrating process... and one that is not easily reversed or tried again.

If the oil is not working then the wheel or axle is either still dirty or has lint/hair in it or you caked the blue can spray. The jigaloo is very easy to apply but is dangerous for plastic so I do not push it because I know I will have to replace ruined wheels.

So, whether you agree or disagree... as a consumer, your DVD and products FAILED. If you're content to tell the customer "you did something wrong, watch it again," that's your prerogative. But I would think you'd rather have happy and repeat customers. I realize you race too.... but I would hope having MORE happy customers using your products SUCCESSFULLY would be more important. I think a suggested "trouble-shooting" bullet list wouldn't be an unreasonable request... given the cost of the DVD, two step axle polish and a dram of oil. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif I only ask that consider things from the viewpoint of a consumer.

If it failed then it is USER ERROR. My phone line is open and I always support my product. I consider my customers first at EVERY level. That is why you have a DVD and oil to use. I did not have to share any of it. I am finding that with a large customer base it is going to be impossible to keep every single customer happy. I run a performance custom shop. The parts take time and there are a lot of customers. I run the EXACT same parts you do and use the same process you do and it works for me. The problem here is you have are not sure if it is working for you or not. You might be faster than everyone here.

I didn't make this post to argue or put anyone down. You folks all seem very nice and appear to be having a good time. BUT... let's be honest, there are continuous (let's call them breakdowns) breakdowns in the growth and progress among leagues and league racing.

We don't APPEAR to be having a good time, we ARE having a good time. The breakdowns are caused by this exact type of posting and are generally done on purpose to stir up drama or controversy. We have not had any issues here. We are not a league. This is a racing circuit built for and around the racers. I am not making accusations but this seems like yet just another attempt to stir up a fight that is commonplace from our competition.

FYI, this is the only site I read and trust. I used to be at P-D-D-R when everyone was there. I do business with Jewkes and I do business with DerbyDad. I don't know why the other board went away... nor do I want to pry. Though this constant turmoil and lack of stability does leave me hesitant to invest in the hobby... fortunately, with my son having another year of scouts, I can justify all of the equipment and the track. He's having fun... so am I. BUT... that's only a 3 month window annually.

So you aren't a member of other boards? There is absolutely NO turmoil here and the fact that 120 cars is a bad month means that this is the most stable pinewood derby has ever been.

My background is racing.... I'm at a racetrack at least 16 times a year. My clients are all racers and race teams and manufacturers. (Audi, Mazda, Cadillac etc.) Going fast and what it takes to go fast aren't foreign concepts to me. And, years ago, I organized RC car racing at the National and World Championship level (26 countries... races as large as 650 entries). I'm fairly well plugged into the racer mentality... from the track to marketing, promoting and manufacturing level.

Taking from your background then I would think you would be shocked at just how much info is given to you for free here.

So... just to be clear, my inquiries are continuously an effort to find relevance and REASONABLE benchmarks. I know tracks differ.... I'm not an idiot. I can see how easy it is to make my own results vary on the same track. I see the times shift throughout the day and night.

But one response here said.... "we were at so and so, the track was level and everything... and it was DOG SLOW." Sorry... my watch doesn't have increments labeled DOG SLOW. Was it 5 seconds slower than NPWDRL's track? 1 second? .050? .010? Someone must have a better handle on the variable.... within reason. If you're saying that two identical (on paper) tracks built level, same slope, same timer chip can be .050 difference - then fine. I'll accept that. However, it seems like a huge difference.

All I'm asking and suggesting is this: Think about your answers to people. "Dog slow" means nothing. "You must have done something wrong," is an insult... I mean, thank you captain obvious.

How can anyone help you if they no reference point? You are putting down help and responses but not participating. If I see your car then I can help you. I would say after the comments that I would be scared to try and help you for fear it would not be satisfactory.

You guys are racing and others respect what you've accomplished.... when someone asks a question involving .010 of a second, it's typically in search of answer to "what should I be looking for?" If my cars running graphite are .020 faster than oil... there's something happening somewhere. I can't imagine one of you have not experienced a problem that turned out to be a "DUH!" moment.

You want more guys racing.... no one is asking "how do I get faster than you?" But it is fair to ask "how to do I get these expensive, time consuming purchases to work 'as advertised?'" /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

WOW. You sure you aren't on the other boards???

I don't think I'm being unfair.

Neither do I.

I have no desire to stir up controversy.

When we came home from losing last year's council race due to the very last lane/run of the day, I vowed we would win next year and it would not come down to any sort of tie breaker or the last run. My goal is to teach my son how preparation and leaving nothing to chance reaps rewards. Period.

I'm sure I'm registered to all the other boards... but it didn't take long to figure out which were scouting boards and which were racing boards.

After Christmas this year, I logged on to P-D-D-R and there was nothing there. That's all I know about whatever riff went on ... and I ended up here and seeing most of the same avatars.

I read far more than I post.

I have no desire to cause controversy. I'll leave if that is your wish.

JT
 
Heck no I do not want you to leave. You have your opinion and I respect that. We all have our own ways of expressing ourselves and can be taken wrong easily on the board. We have separated ourselves from the other leagues. We don't want to be part of the rifts and we aren't having any part of it. Your post can be construed as an effort from a league to cause issues here. If you have a problem and product issue it might be easier to just call me direct so I can help you figure it out.
 
I don't want to jump in BUT this has been the best group of guys that i have been around! I am in rc flying groups,fishing clubs,church groups,ect. and none of them have been this great to a new guy!
 
DerbyDad4Hire said:
Owens Racing said:
I wouldn't drive myself crazy shooting for 27.1 degrees. If you look at the accuracy of those digital protractors, you'll see there's room for a lot variance right there.

You got that right!!! That is possibly the biggest issue in the differences in times. Maybe if we all used the same gauge.

Level/angle is a real PITA! The only way I could see consistency across all tracks would be to machine a precise 27.1 degree gauge block and use a "Master Precision Level" on it. We have a Starrett that's sensitive to 10 seconds over 12"... that's about .003 degrees. But, that would be an expensive route to eliminate one of the MANY inconsistencies from track to track.

Personally, I would like to see more inconsistency in the NPWDRL...maybe a Freedom track or BSA spec wood track, etc.../images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif
 
John,

From someone who has sat in your shoes I can say "Nothing will do any good for you until you race." It took me two months to send in a car. After 5 months I felt like you do. You're going to have to get over it and race. It took me almost 2 years before I got to be really good.

As far as doing something wrong: If you're not getting results you're doing something wrong. Those who say it, know it, because we have done it wrong.

You say your not a quitter and I don't believe you are. But, if you've been around for almost a year now and haven't raced, you've quit before you even started.

You and others have been given more info on this board than any other board for pinewood derby. Secretes have been shared, but you're not going to get it all, you'll have to work for some of it.

I have invested over $2k in products (not tools) and countless hours to get fast. If you've followed the board you've seen my post with most of the products I've purchased and continue to purchase. Believe me when I say "It's easier being mid pack than it ever is being at the top".

I respect that people want to come into a level playing field, it may not seem like it, but it's as level as can be here. I'd be happy to share every secret I have, 50 guys at $150 each would be my minimum. I can promise you'll be fast afterward, but don't blame me if you feel cheated.

The bottom line is come and race and get faster through experience. I hope to race you soon. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif

My stuff http://forums.derbydad4hire.com/post/Kinsers-Secrets-5739501
 
Kinser Racing said:
John,

From someone who has sat in your shoes I can say "Nothing will do any good for you until you race." It took me two months to send in a car. After 5 months I felt like you do. You're going to have to get over it and race. It took me almost 2 years before I got to be really good.

As far as doing something wrong: If you're not getting results you're doing something wrong. Those who say it, know it, because we have done it wrong.

You say your not a quitter and I don't believe you are. But, if you've been around for almost a year now and haven't raced, you've quit before you even started.

You and others have been given more info on this board than any other board for pinewood derby. Secretes have been shared, but you're not going to get it all, you'll have to work for some of it.

I have invested over $2k in products (not tools) and countless hours to get fast. If you've followed the board you've seen my post with most of the products I've purchased and continue to purchase. Believe me when I say "It's easier being mid pack than it ever is being at the top".

I respect that people want to come into a level playing field, it may not seem like it, but it's as level as can be here. I'd be happy to share every secret I have, 50 guys at $150 each would be my minimum. I can promise you'll be fast afterward, but don't blame me if you feel cheated.

The bottom line is come and race and get faster through experience. I hope to race you soon. /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif

Thanks, Kinser.

The reason I haven't jumped in yet is it's still my son's activity. (Yeah... right?) - So after last year, it was a plan of building the shop out then getting a track. I don't work for 4+ months in the off-season (October - Feb)... on it was better to plan it for his Scouts Derby season. Our Council must run the latest schedule in the country. We ran Pack this week... we're waiting for the date(s) of Districts and Council. He'll have one more year of Scout racing... then I'll be on my own. But I want to get started league racing. It's going to be a juggling act at best. My in-season puts me on the road for about 15 week-ends. And, I only have him every other weekend. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif We'll sort it out... and I will get a car in.

Thanks,

John
 
This program does a fair job of modeling different tracks. Trust me- you can not come close without getting multiple types of cars run on the track, then force fit the equation to make it work. But it is not "new" information over and above what you get from running your own car on both tracks using the method OPA suggested.

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66SDDk2ZqGRFfRLgDlAe49Fnvx/t+qXpyAz9/yyxPib9/ag+CXAHKE+OO9jflToTRz3K/9E+pA+X4qjhDjAcnd1BHLF0KY56rN93NLMy+WD1SYA7QHnsR39jY8OnIyQm/ztaD8AdYChmfPThjhruAMMx46Of4Y7Fvi/OD7gDDMJcN0y7bYzzUM099VwncAeImXpJD54wD03qu07gDgBABnAHACAHuAMAkAPcAQDIAe4AAOQAdwAAcoA7AAA5wB0AgBzgDgBADnAHACAHuAMAkMP/A2OjpM/2iRcnAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC

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
Track Car Total time
best42 track Nashville PS limit DD4H LOO+ 2.9868
 
the dog slow was .020 ave slower than the Utah track just for the Street stock class, it was closer in the other classes. the track angle was set at 27.1 and the whole track was leveled side to side and front to back. and you could take the same track from one side of the nation to the other and set it up exactly the same and have different times each time.
 
DNA RACING said:
the dog slow was .020 ave slower than the Utah track just for the Street stock class, it was closer in the other classes. the track angle was set at 27.1 and the whole track was leveled side to side and front to back. and you could take the same track from one side of the nation to the other and set it up exactly the same and have different times each time.

Thanks for that. It does provide some framework of what is possible... and I suppose if a track can go .020 slower... another might go .020 faster, resulting in a .040 variances.

I think a huge source of frustration once you own a track is the physical and visual variables seem so small... yet the numbers on the timer loom oh-so-large. When testing three "good" cars, they roll down the track neck n' neck... then the times pop up and you've got a 3.027 a 3.048 and a 3.099. You're ready to toss the 3.099 car on the scrap heap... even though it was less than 2" back. LOL I guess it's great for spectators and agony for builders.

JT
 
DD4H- thanks, I am reminded of a quote from Minnesota Fats, " I could spot Einstein the 10 ball" and for sure Einstein would never have a chance in a pool game or pinewood racing either, and I need to get "double smart" to crack the next speed barrier because I have slow skills- but I enjoy it. I have two years before the next grand kid starts racing, but he has built cars with his older brother and can't wait to get into it. Our Troop is having it's 50 yr anniversary in Oct, and we will be having a big pinewood derby with as many old cars as possible from all the old scouts.
smile
 
John i'm not bashing on you but no matter what league of racing your in there's not a racer that's going to tell you everything. And how can someone tell you what your doing wrong with your car if they don't know how you prepped it. And as far as the difference in tracks its kinda like real racing is it not. I mean is Daytona like Talladega or any other track for that matter. My son and I ran at this past weekends dash4cash and we got hammered but we had a great time and met some good people. Enjoy it for the hobby bud. We aren't exactly winning millions here just making friends which is better to me anyway's.