Hardening Wheels Where Axle Head Meets Wheel

[1reason]

Does anyone use epoxy or other "stuff" to create a surface that is harder and or less friction for the nail head to ride against?

It seems all the designs (canting rear wheels, rail-riding) call for the wheel to ride against the axle-head, so it appears logical that using something to build up a surface that can be polished with lower friction is possible?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that the plastic wheel is the best substance to make contact (granted, wax is added/used) with the axle head.

Thanks

 

[Kinser Racing]

I don't think you'll be able to get an even surface for the axle to ride against.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I agree with the "how would you keep it flat/straight".

BUT: IF you had a way to put something on there and have it be flat......I'm just wondering if you could paint some of that Teflon nail polish on there in a real thin coat and how that'd work?

I guess you'd need to make sure it didn't melt the wheel material first. Hmmmm

 

[1reason]

I don't think you'll be able to get an even surface for the axle to ride against.

If you plug the bore that the axle goes through, then you could fill the area with hard material. Then drill a hole for the axle and polish??

 

[Guest]

An interesting idea.

I think the added weight/ balance might offset some gains, but it could be worth something.

I guess I always took for granted that stainless steel and polystyrene had a very special relationship that the PWD gods decided was best.

Re drilling the axle hole sounds like a recipe for a non concentric wheel unless done meticulously in multiple steps on a lathe.

It would probably qualify as a bushing in SS, but perhaps it could work in Street Pro. It sounds quite involved though.

 

[1reason]

I agree with the "how would you keep it flat/straight".

BUT: IF you had a way to put something on there and have it be flat......I'm just wondering if you could paint some of that Teflon nail polish on there in a real thin coat and how that'd work?

I guess you'd need to make sure it didn't melt the wheel material first. Hmmmm

That's along the lines I was thinking

 

[Guest]

Perhaps spinning the wheel after application of the product to let centrifugal force spread it out

 

[bracketracer]

I don't think you'll be able to get an even surface for the axle to ride against.

If you plug the bore that the axle goes through, then you could fill the area with hard material. Then drill a hole for the axle and polish??

That would be considered a bushing. Not legal for SS or SR. Could work in the other classes though.

 

[jator359]

Wow I'm really glad this thread was started. Ive been obssessing on this topic the past couple months. I decided to kick up our prep a notch this season by using a microscope to inspect wheel & axle progress at each step. The thing that really amazed me is how incredibly soft polystyrene is. After polishing with zero friction bore polish #1, I noticed small "hangnails" under scope around the inner hub that I then ran my finger tip over. Not only did I make the hangnail bigger but also left residue in doing so. The bore surface also still looked rough and uneven. Got me thinking there might be some merit in layering some material on the bore and hubs prior to applying red rocket.

 

[jator359]

Another observation I made, this time during wheel reprep for districts, was how the rear wheel bores got deformed with all that weight in the back (we had fairly aggressive COMs), specifically the section of the bore closest to the axle head. We used grooved axles. The axle section that contacted the bore there actually compressed the plastic, increasing the bore diameter--both wheels! I almost started with a new pair of wheels after seeing that but didnt want to spring for a new set of cheetahs (which these were) on such short notice. Anybody else experience that?

 

[Kinser Racing]

Are you sure that it didn't happen from pulling the axles?

 

[Guest]

Wow I'm really glad this thread was started. Ive been obssessing on this topic the past couple months. I decided to kick up our prep a notch this season by using a microscope to inspect wheel & axle progress at each step. The thing that really amazed me is how incredibly soft polystyrene is. After polishing with zero friction bore polish #1, I noticed small "hangnails" under scope around the inner hub that I then ran my finger tip over. Not only did I make the hangnail bigger but also left residue in doing so. The bore surface also still looked rough and uneven. Got me thinking there might be some merit in layering some material on the bore and hubs prior to applying red rocket.

I started inspection under magnification before and after each step in the prep process.

It is amazing to see the difference. It really makes you realize how almost ANYTHING can make its way in there. I started to realize the OCD aspect of this thing we do.

Fibers and dust and lint etc. became my enemy.

Also, anything harder than styrene became a potential deadly weapon against my soft wheels and bores.

 

[jator359]

I pulled the axles off with a looped fishing line under the head so there was no pressure on the outer hub at all. The deformation was inside the bore.

 

[Guest]

I pulled the axles off with a looped fishing line under the head so there was no pressure on the outer hub at all. The deformation was inside the bore.

Is the "hangnail" a burr left over from the wax?

What is the composition of this "hangnail"?

Is it a vegetable, a mineral, or an animal?

Most wheel bores have a bulge inside them. Since you ran your finger over it I assume this is not what you are referring to.

 

[Guest]

Another observation I made, this time during wheel reprep for districts, was how the rear wheel bores got deformed with all that weight in the back (we had fairly aggressive COMs), specifically the section of the bore closest to the axle head. We used grooved axles. The axle section that contacted the bore there actually compressed the plastic, increasing the bore diameter--both wheels! I almost started with a new pair of wheels after seeing that but didnt want to spring for a new set of cheetahs (which these were) on such short notice. Anybody else experience that?

That aggressive COM really plays havoc with those wheel bores.

That is why I try to stay around 5/8"

 

[jator359]

The hangnail was a burr left over from the lathing so I'm assuming it was plastic; I always order wheels with unfinished bores. The bulge I noticed during reprep after the first race. The front wheels didn't have them; only the rears, on both my son's and my (open) car.

I pulled the axles off with a looped fishing line under the head so there was no pressure on the outer hub at all. The deformation was inside the bore.

Is the "hangnail" a burr left over from the wax?

What is the composition of this "hangnail"?

Is it a vegetable, a mineral, or an animal?

Most wheel bores have a bulge inside them. Since you ran your finger over it I assume this is not what you are referring to.

 

[The Iceman]

Our first race i over spun the wheels with my dremel we took 1st and the fastest overall 3.06 on a best track (slow i know) but the dang axles even flattened. Did you spin yours too much?

 

[jator359]

We took fastest times in both races as well, using oil. (of course this wasn't a league race--stuff learned on this board makes winning cub/awana/ra/rr races too easy to paraphrase what I think QT or Kinser said in an old post). No the internal bulges were in both cars and only the rear wheels.

 

[ngyoung]

I don't think you'll be able to get an even surface for the axle to ride against.

If you plug the bore that the axle goes through, then you could fill the area with hard material. Then drill a hole for the axle and polish??

Saw a YouTube video where a guy mixed his graphite with isopropal alcohol to make a paste and packed it into the wheel bore around the axle. Then broke it in really good but the packed graphite "bushing" stayed. I doubt it works good though since I have not seen anyone fast here every having success with it. I think having the graphite compressed like that makes it less effective even if it lasts longer. I think it needs to have a loose layer to work best.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I don't think you'll be able to get an even surface for the axle to ride against.

If you plug the bore that the axle goes through, then you could fill the area with hard material. Then drill a hole for the axle and polish??

Saw a YouTube video where a guy mixed his graphite with isopropal alcohol to make a paste and packed it into the wheel bore around the axle. Then broke it in really good but the packed graphite "bushing" stayed. I doubt it works good though since I have not seen anyone fast here every having success with it. I think having the graphite compressed like that makes it less effective even if it lasts longer. I think it needs to have a loose layer to work best.

Your assumption would be correct. That guy is trying to come up with any gimmick to confuse new PWD dad's to buy his crap. Sadly he doesn't race and if he ever does race in any event as he told me, " you will never know". Probably because he loses a lot and doesn't want his business to get hurt. But it's funny ppl still buy his stuff and he has nothing to prove he's a good builder or that his methods work.