Increased participation idea

[Knotty Racing]

Possibly adding a new class to the races called "TT"

There are no rules, no trophies, just data collection.

Call it? Time Trials, Tune Test, Time Test, what ever.

The way I see it, it is hard to compare league racing because there are so many rule sets out there. There is not a class here that pertains to our local rules, nor could you have a class that would fit all the rule sets out there.

It is probably an insurmountable task to think that every pack out there could agree on a standard rule set so..............

This would give people the opportunity to test their cars against themselves with their own rule sets. They can do testing thru submitting their cars for the race in this class. They get a wonderful live stream to watch, recorded time data and if they choose, they can compare to the league rules and times.

It would be like running your car on a dyno and getting the results.

If this has been covered before just ignore.

If not, what do you think?

 

[bracketracer]

Hmmm, I could see doing that if you're live at the event, but how would it work if you're tuning by proxy? Would you designate a person (volunteer or compensated?) at the venue to do your tweaking for you? I think DD4H offers that service now, less the video coverage!

Our Pack has a "test and tune" a few days before the Pack race, but I gotta tell ya, there's no "tuning" going on- it's two runs per scout and you're done. There's no timer set up for the event, it's really just to make sure no one has any major defects so everyone gets to the finish line on race day. Not what I was expecting at all! That's the main reason I built a track at home!

 

[OPARENNEN]

I would like to see a FPWCE (Fastest Pinewood Car Ever), or something like that:

No rules except car must be totally gravity driven. Weight, Axles, Wheels, Length; all open (Except anything that could damage track)
Cars shipped to John at any time.
John runs the car down his track all alone, once in each lane (or submitter could do so himself).
Average time of 4 tracks is official time.
Over a year's time, keep track of the top 3 (i.e. bumping occurs when a new car beats any of the existing top 3)
Post the top 3 on the forum some where.

 

[Knotty Racing]

Opa, neat idea. Would the main body have to be constructed of Pine to be the WFPWCE?

I was aiming for offering scout's a venue to test their cars if they don't own a track and their pack doesn't offer a test and tune day.

At Nationals, there was a Dad and his two boys that came. Their cars were not built for Nationals with the Nationals rule sets. They were their scout cars. They got put into the unlimited class, which was not even a close fit for their builds.

I applaud them as they kept their head high and asked questions, but dang I don't know how many people would take that beating as well as they did.

Now I also understand there is nothing stopping you from entering a car with 2.7-2.8 g wheels into street stock for testing, but you will get stone cold smoked! At that point, they are really not competing but just showing up.

This would also offer them a chance to experience a league race, gain valuable information about their build without feeling bad about the results.

Nothing against John(I understand that time is money), but I don't know how many scouts are going to pony up $100 for a tune if their car may not be worth tuning. $25 bucks if you used a block drilled by John is very reasonable in my opinion and I totally understand the difference. With that said, our local rule set requires the use of the kit block.

Maybe it should be called "Dyno" , "Derby Dyno" or "Dyno Run" etc....

I am here because of my desire to benchmark against the best and to learn as much as I can. So I ponied up for some wheels and axles to do that. Now I still have to try and relate the information that I obtain to our local rule set. Not an easy task.

Now, building a couple cars to our rule set, sending them in and getting a live feed to see if we have any shake rattle and roll along with a time and a car against car comparison it just got easier. Now you also have a great place that you can try something and send it back and see if it improved.

Just some thoughts.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

We have tried adding classes to support the scouts many times and they always went with at most 2 entries. The fact is that regardless of how their car is built they are going to get beat badly. If all they want is a benchmark then it shouldn't matter.

As far as $100 to tune a car, most of the "stuff" that gets sent to me takes me 2 to 3 hours to try and fix. I can usually build a new car faster. The only time I have ever had a car get broken was the worst piece of crap I have ever had to try and tune and they ended up getting a brand new car. After that I raised my prices.

 

[Knotty Racing]

John,

You are correct, you could add as many classes as you want and not get participation. Those reasons are probably many and all vary.

My idea stemmed from a response from you on one of my first few posts here.

"I will never understand the mentality of "if I have no chance to win then I am not going to race," and that is a common theme with the majority of people on the boards. The evidence is in the turnout for MA. People have had a primo event to race at every month with a finely tuned track, fantastic live feed and professional help with hands on access to your car and yet they don't take advantage. You will NEVER be able to reach the point you want without racing with these guys. That is a FACT."

This was quite the statement that really made me think.

Here is my answer for the mentality question; We chose to ignore the leagues because the rules were so different than our local rules that you cannot compare apples to apples running our scout rule car to a league rule car.

With that said, you made a great marketability point and I have now witnessed it first hand at nationals. "People have had a primo event to race at every month with a finely tuned track, fantastic live feed and professional help with hands on access to your car and yet they don't take advantage." Thus my idea was born, "Derby Dyno" class taking advantage of all those great things you list. Also eliminating the "if I have no chance to win then I am not going to race". It becomes a race against your own rule set against your own builds.

This would not succeed without proper marketing either.

We raced at Mid-America because it was marketed to us. As a result of that and 5kids web links, we ended up here.

When I hear stories about a small scout pack asking their neighboring town pack if they can race with them because they don't have a track and they get turned down, well that is an opportunity. Also, I am sure there are many packs that don't have test and tune days or workshops.

If presented with the idea of using the "Derby Dyno" class as an opportunity to have your small town pack race, or to test your tune and or tune or get feedback. I think people would use it if they knew about the opportunity.

I don't know if this makes any more sense, but that is the background of where the idea was coming from and why to have something like it.

I was taking what you have to offer and trying to make a better fit for the majority of PWD'ers out there.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

I think it is a great idea to try and reach out to the scout community. People take pinewood derby for a joke because 19 out of 20 times it is run like a joke. There are a million rules varieties out there and that is why I made the Street Stock class the way it is so it would accept a majority of the cars out there. If you raced the MA because it was marketed as a scout event then the NPWDRL should be no problem at all! The MA rules are nowhere near the norm and are much more open than the Street Stock rules and you can't win the MA unless you buy performance parts or are a top league racer. The reality is that the ones that will league race will usually build cars for it specifically. Your idea is great but a majority of the people do not feel like they should have to pay to get their cars tested and critiqued or do not really care about it once their pack race is done. This attempt to build the leagues from scout racers has been going on for years but it is a never ending battle because the scout racers usually only race once or twice and then they are gone and all the work done to cultivate them goes out the window. The enthusiasm quickly goes away for most and they heat up again the next season but when their kids are done then they are gone for good. I am not trying to be a negative Nellie but I have been trying to figure this out for years and until we can take it overall to the next level it will always be a basement activity. The league racing world needs to all unite but that is yet another improbability. The reason you went to MA was because of the marketing effort. It is one thing to do it for one event per year but to try and do it continually for years is another story. This is why it is going to have to be a full group effort and I will say that is why we are growing now because this is by far the most help I have had from a bunch of guys willing to donate a little time to make it fly. I am behind you if you want to try and get something going and I appreciate your ideas.