Inspection best practices

[wkbrdtx]

I am running the Pinewood derby race for our pack for the 3rd year. I have a 5 oz. test weight and have constructed a custom inspection box for vehicle dimension. I will have helpers that will be inspecting wheels/axles and wheelbase as well. We will all be looking for non-BSA parts such as wheels and axles as they are prohibited. We will be asking the Scouts about their cars such as how long it took to build, etc.
What are the best practices for inspecting cars especially the 4 wheel contact? I plan to get a very flat surface that will not warp - such as a small piece of granite and a bright light to shine on it - in the hopes of determining that all 4 wheels contact the surface and that they are flat (not canted or cambered). If they are angled I will be able to see light shining between the wheel and the flat surface.

What inspection parts and procedures do you recommend?

Thank you in advance!

Dale

Houston, TX.

 

[Rocket car]

The problem is that if all wheels must touch the ground , trust me the scout didn't do it because its hard to be that accurate. Ive watched scoutmasters push the cars down at race time to get the wheels to touch.(even though some dad might try to take a swing at you)

Otherwise, I would use the light under the wheels idea.

 

[5KidsRacing]

I think all you need for a scout inspection is a scale for weight, a go-no-go type box for correct size/track fit and a knowledgeable inspector to take a look at the wheels/axles. If you have a wheelbase requirement then you can add in a cheap wheelbase plastic measuring thing that you place on the bottom of the car.

You won't get much love here for the 4 on a floor/non canted rule.... To be honest those are stupid rules. The typical scout won't be able to get all 4 wheels touching or the wheels/axles installed with no canting, especially when using the slots. 3 points make a plane and the cars weight will always be sitting on 3 wheels.... Those rules are usually made by a committee member that thinks canting/lifted wheel is the smoking gun in speed and they are bitter about their Son losing. The reality is that you can't fairly inspect for those rules and the more knowledgeable pwd builders will still win....

 

[Crash Enburn]

Since it is just for the Pack, you can lighten up a bit. We have to live with the same "four wheels running flat" rule. We have a test box (length, width, height) that sits on a base that checks wheelbase. We will also roll the car on a flat surface to see all four wheels roll. As long as the wheels aren't canted so that it is truly obvious -- that is, to the judge it appears more that any angling is incidental instead of intentional -- it's good to go as far as that is concerned.

If a car is crushing all comers, it can be called out, and then all the business with the lights and angles can be verified. The check-in for Districts should be stricter than for the Pack, as this is a best-of-the-best race.

Since you have a "four-wheels flat rule", I'd bet that you also have a "graphite only" rule. You could make it a policy to helpfully add a squirt of graphite to each wheel -- this will ensure that some boys' cars will make it to the finish line, and will make some boys' dads cringe with pain as they see their "sprinkle of graphite on the car but away from the wheel bore" ruse destroyed.

Even so, no need to put a boy in a spotlighted chair and interrogating him. "How long did zis take you? Vhat is zee name of zee polish you used? Vee haf vays of makink you talk."

 

[xanthrum]

Packs really have to take a closer look at how such kind of rules Do Not keep things fair... and are really not even that pure when you take a look at the rules that come in the Box... having run thousands of cars made from every type of builder down a track - I can assure you that the best made scout cars rarely have 4 on the floor... even when it is not intentional that a car have a lifted wheel. I just do not get why such packs have such restrictive rules that do not allow a parent and a child to build a car that empolys the most modern technology developing a better understanding of physics, parent child involvement, the notion that a scout has to build the car all by himself takes away from what the activity was designed to be.

 

[oskiwow]

Be reasonable and approach it with the mantra that your Scout event is for the benefit of the scouts, and not the parents. I'd ensure that the rules are clear (i.e. "BSA wheels with all original text/markings, minimum tread width," "maximum: 5.00 ounces") etc. I've learned to encourage cheating to the utmost -- if it gets by me, it must be legal

...

At the end of the day, the scouts want to race against their buddies -- when we run our races, our scouts have more fun post race, when we let them race against their friends of their choice on the track for a good hour.

 

[bracketracer]

wkbrdtx, for the four wheels touching, just roll it on a flat surface and make sure all wheels try to rotate. It's a Scout race, keep it fun!

 

[Kinser Racing]

I completely agree with the answers here.

 

[Guest]

Vee have vays of MAKING you talk.

Now answer the quvestion!

How long did the car take to build?

 

[Guest]

The top 3 finishers could always be subjected to a lie detector while the losers watch and eat ice cream

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I think we are missing the purpose of pinewood derby. The point is for the father and son to enjoy spending time building their car, making it fast or a cool design. The problem with most rules is they are so concerned about making it far for everyone rather than worry about making it as fun and enjoyable as possible. We have seminars to teach everyone that attends how to make the car as fast as possible. Back when I was in scouts that was a tight kept secret that only the winners knew. So, instead of worrying about cheaters with making strict rules, just make simple rules that align with making fast cars. Then have a seminar teaching people the tricks and tips the pros on here share. I ask my son every year, "fast car or cool design car"? He picks the fast car because that wins the trophy, but it's his choice, along with the entire build.

 

[Rocket car]

Vee have vays of MAKING you talk.

Now answer the quvestion!

How long did the car take to build?

You guys remind me of the movie "Firefox"

 

[Guest]

Ol' facemelt with the hot poker from Raiders of the Lost Ark is what popped in my head reading this thread/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif

 

[wkbrdtx]

Thanks for the input everyone! I have decided to have detailed rules aimed at reducing the cost to the parents by not allowing non-BSA parts, single axles or pre-built/finished parts.
The inspection will be detailed, thorough and very professional with no interrogation, however I will encourage the scouts to brag on their car and construction. Cars that do not pass inspection will be corrected until they pass unless a parent tells me outright that the car was purchased "as is" or has prohibited parts that cannot be changed.
If a parent and scout get an illegal car through inspection then who loses? Even if the car goes on to win the fastest in the pack trophy, the scout and parent(s) loses in the long run.

[Since you have a "four-wheels flat rule", I'd bet that you also have a "graphite only" rule. You could make it a policy to helpfully add a squirt of graphite to each wheel -- this will ensure that some boys' cars will make it to the finish line, and will make some boys' dads cringe with pain as they see their "sprinkle of graphite on the car but away from the wheel bore" ruse destroyed]

We do have the "graphite only" rule and we also add graphite to every car after impound and before the race. Please tell me more about the ruse. Are you saying that the car may have an illegal liquid lubricant with graphite 'splashed' on the side of the car for effect and that graphite introduced to the wheel and axle will ruin it? The graphite rule is intended to make track cleanup easier.

 

[Rocket car]

Be careful adding graphite yourself. Have the kids or dads do it for you. When building graphite cars it takes 2-3 runs to reach top speed. You may be taking out the best car by adding graphite right before the race. The smart dads will rotate the wheel alot after adding the graphite.

 

[Rocket car]

Be careful adding graphite yourself. Have the kids or dads do it for you. When building graphite cars it takes 2-3 runs to reach top speed. You may be taking out the best car by adding graphite right before the race. The smart dads will rotate the wheel alot after adding the graphite.

 

[Guest]

What a great skit it would make to have a real hard ass enforcer at the registration table.

With calipers, micrometers, and various measuring tools calibrated to an inch of their life, laid out before him.

Then pan back to the rag tag group of fathers with their wood blocks.

All to ferret out the one guy that actually knows what he is doing. lol

There should be a miniature car compactor for the rejects.

The sprinkling of graphite sounds like it might be a good idea.

I have to say that I am still coughing up graphite dust from last year.

It seems like the most dangerous stuff in my workshop.

Best of luck with the race.

 

[Crash Enburn]

We do have the "graphite only" rule and we also add graphite to every car after impound and before the race. Please tell me more about the ruse. Are you saying that the car may have an illegal liquid lubricant with graphite 'splashed' on the side of the car for effect and that graphite introduced to the wheel and axle will ruin it? The graphite rule is intended to make track cleanup easier.

The guys here all use some variation of a Krytox oil blend in their cars for the NPWDRL. It is slightly faster (as I understand it) at inception, but has the added benefit of longevity -- an oil car will run the same time for a week; a graphite car will start slowing down after a couple runs.

It has been posited more than once that "oil is less messy than graphite", and that if a scout race has a "dry lube only" rule that oil should be used "since it is effectively dry", and further that if the scout race specifies graphite, that one could use oil for the actual lubrication, but then carefully put some graphite 'overspray' on the car body and wheels while carefully avoiding the hubs.

It is believed (tested and verified?) that adding graphite to an oil prepped wheel and axle will gum it up and slow it down; ruining the prep.

As to 'the graphite rule is intended to make track cleanup easier", graphite is inherently a huge mess. Oil, applied correctly (sparingly!), leaves far less mess. Of course, the key words here are "applied correctly."

If your district/council rules require graphite (whatever their reason), just keep that as a requirement for your race. Do make sure that everyone is aware that "we also add graphite to every car after impound and before the race." Do you also spin the wheels to 'burn in' the graphite, or just leave it loose? If the latter, a good portion of that graphite will end up on your track.

There should be a miniature car compactor for the rejects.

Bwahahahahahaha!

 

[Guest]

Quick question:

If graphite gets all over the track does it not gum up the oil cars anyway?

Perhaps just a test run on each car would sufficiently litter the track, and avoid the need for new graphite.

Now back to the miniature car compactor.

I can't decide if it should be a hand cranked version
or super nonchalant like a fast paper shredder.

 

[Guest]

I'd go with the hand crank version and squish the ever living life out of it so it'll never run again-then shred it just to be sure, burn it and spread the ashes at a ceremony to keep future racers honest and on edge. Another option would be to superglue the wheels to the axles and put the car in a wall of shame type display case behind a giant carved wooden slug set next to a picture of the shameful,guilt ridden and soon to be ostracised father and son team who built the god-forsaken contraption.