Must Have Tools

[Chief]

Obsessedderbydad:
Zeebzob is dead on correct in that the majority of us here have fallen to all kinds of gimmicks or tricks that we thought would work and we worked and worked only to find that it really wasnt such a good thing after all, (i.e. treadmill)Lucky for me I never did the treadmill as I didnt own own haha, but I would have if I would have had one haha. I will tell you that one of my biggest issues is just being a regular stubborn guy. We are so used to people telling us crap ideas and gimmicks that do not work that when you finally get to the NPWDRL and the Pros tell you things it is hard to believe some of it. BUT, I will tell you this forum is not like that at all!!!! I have been on here for a little over a year and a half and some of the guys will vouch for me when I tell you that they have told me things and I thought "Aaa" that cant be right, I will do it my way, and like the famous "Godfather" says "Once again" I didnt listen...but the cool part is they have not given up on me and for that I am very thankful!!! I am not at the top of the charts but every time I send a car in I learn something and it is usually something that someone already told me that I didnt listen to the first time hahahah....AND now I am starting to listen!!! and its working quite well haha

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

You seem to be resistant to what people say here on this board. You need not be, especially to someone like Kinser....he's quite fast, he may just have some idea as to what he is talking about. I don't want to burst your bubble, but winning at a scout level is not all that difficult. Nearly everyone here has done it. And everyone here has taken that scout winning car, sent it in to race here and have come in last. And everyone who has done that, listened to other racers, and kept at it, are a lot faster then they ever were before.

Here's the thing. I'm new, I've said I'm new and trying to make my sons car faster. I saw the tredmil thing and thought it was a good idea. I dont doubt Kinser's knowledge and speed, he's a pro and good at what he does. But, when someone says don't do it and nothing more, how can I learn off of that? I need more information that just no. That's why I asked why is it bad. I'm not being resistant, I'm just trying to learn so when someone comes up to me and says, "hey I'm going to use a tredmil" I can tell them more than just Kinser said no. I also understand there's 2 worlds out there. And while I'm a LOOOONG ways away from ever trying the NPWDRL, Id still like to learn from those guys and know why they do what they do. Sure they may not share everything, and it may be overkill for the scout races I'm building cars for, but I still want to know how it works, why it works, why do this and not that. It'll make me a better car builder if I know these things and in turn can help other people out.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

And I forgot to add that it eliminates paper towel and cloth lint which is a source of contamination most guys overlook that robs you of speed. Add to your list a source of magnification to inspect your axles and wheel bores. We have a 60x pocket microscope with LED--really inexpensive ($5-6 I think).

How about an air compressor, preferably 3+ gals. with blow gun attachment for blowing out wheel bores during prep and quick drying axles during prep. Cheaper in the long run than buying canned air at $3-$5 a can! I have a 3 gal pancake from HF I got for $39 with their 20% coupon.

Good catch on the air compressor. I do have one, but never really use it.

Noted. saw my sons magnifying glass (toy) and thought about something like that.

 

[Chief]

All good points and understood!

However, you are not as far away from trying the NPWDRL as you may think. The best way to learn and get faster is to send your cars in. You get to see it run against other great builders and when your car is side by side with them you get to see things that you would not normally get to see. The smallest adjustments and intricate details make some of the biggest differences. I do not know where you are located but as anyone will tell you, there is nothing that compares to a LIVE race and the June race is going to be one you might try to get to??? Just sayin

You seem to be resistant to what people say here on this board. You need not be, especially to someone like Kinser....he's quite fast, he may just have some idea as to what he is talking about. I don't want to burst your bubble, but winning at a scout level is not all that difficult. Nearly everyone here has done it. And everyone here has taken that scout winning car, sent it in to race here and have come in last. And everyone who has done that, listened to other racers, and kept at it, are a lot faster then they ever were before.

Here's the thing. I'm new, I've said I'm new and trying to make my sons car faster. I saw the tredmil thing and thought it was a good idea. I dont doubt Kinser's knowledge and speed, he's a pro and good at what he does. But, when someone says don't do it and nothing more, how can I learn off of that? I need more information that just no. That's why I asked why is it bad. I'm not being resistant, I'm just trying to learn so when someone comes up to me and says, "hey I'm going to use a tredmil" I can tell them more than just Kinser said no. I also understand there's 2 worlds out there. And while I'm a LOOOONG ways away from ever trying the NPWDRL, Id still like to learn from those guys and know why they do what they do. Sure they may not share everything, and it may be overkill for the scout races I'm building cars for, but I still want to know how it works, why it works, why do this and not that. It'll make me a better car builder if I know these things and in turn can help other people out.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I live in Ohio, and I still have a lot to learn. Watching those races I'm amazed at the rail running, no bobble, smooth and fast runs. I'm still hitting my head against the wall for bending my axles tring to use the rail riding technique.

I'd love to get to that point where I can send a car in, but I think for now taking notes on the do's and don'ts is my best bet. Plus I'm currently working 12hrs a day 7 days a week for 4 more weeks so I have 0 time to do anything PWD... which is very depressing.

 

[zeebzob]

Here's the thing. I'm new, I've said I'm new and trying to make my sons car faster. I saw the tredmil thing and thought it was a good idea. I dont doubt Kinser's knowledge and speed, he's a pro and good at what he does. But, when someone says don't do it and nothing more, how can I learn off of that? I need more information that just no. That's why I asked why is it bad. I'm not being resistant, I'm just trying to learn so when someone comes up to me and says, "hey I'm going to use a tredmil" I can tell them more than just Kinser said no. I also understand there's 2 worlds out there. And while I'm a LOOOONG ways away from ever trying the NPWDRL, Id still like to learn from those guys and know why they do what they do. Sure they may not share everything, and it may be overkill for the scout races I'm building cars for, but I still want to know how it works, why it works, why do this and not that. It'll make me a better car builder if I know these things and in turn can help other people out.

I understand wanting to know why...I think a lot of people figure they have wasted enough time of bad ideas, they don't want to waste more with explanations...lol
You should never be a long way from trying the NPWDRL. Just send one in. You will find you learn sooooo much more just by racing. Right now, you have no idea how you actually stack up to the regular racers. Send one in...see how it does. Make a change or two and see if it improves the next month. The best way to get someone to mentor you is show that you participate and support the hobby instead of just asking questions. The top guys will be able to give you greater advise if they see your car firsthand. They all started out where you are. John will be the first to tell you that his first derbys were not much to write home about. But he started racing at PDDR, the Jewkes were the ones who he went to to learn. Now look at him, he is the one showing everyone else how its done (well maybe not JB, lol)
C'mon, send it in...you're not cool unless you do (How was the peer pressure I just applied?)

 

[zeebzob]

I live in Ohio, and I still have a lot to learn. Watching those races I'm amazed at the rail running, no bobble, smooth and fast runs. I'm still hitting my head against the wall for bending my axles tring to use the rail riding technique.

I'd love to get to that point where I can send a car in, but I think for now taking notes on the do's and don'ts is my best bet. Plus I'm currently working 12hrs a day 7 days a week for 4 more weeks so I have 0 time to do anything PWD... which is very depressing.

Ohio is not too far from Wisconsin. I shall expect to see you here live in June for the Nationals

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I live in Ohio, and I still have a lot to learn. Watching those races I'm amazed at the rail running, no bobble, smooth and fast runs. I'm still hitting my head against the wall for bending my axles tring to use the rail riding technique.

I'd love to get to that point where I can send a car in, but I think for now taking notes on the do's and don'ts is my best bet. Plus I'm currently working 12hrs a day 7 days a week for 4 more weeks so I have 0 time to do anything PWD... which is very depressing.

Ohio is not too far from Wisconsin. I shall expect to see you here live in June for the Nationals

I did mention it to my wife

But I think my project at work will keep me from taking vacation until... November. Maybe next year /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I understand wanting to know why...I think a lot of people figure they have wasted enough time of bad ideas, they don't want to waste more with explanations...lol
You should never be a long way from trying the NPWDRL. Just send one in. You will find you learn sooooo much more just by racing. Right now, you have no idea how you actually stack up to the regular racers. Send one in...see how it does. Make a change or two and see if it improves the next month. The best way to get someone to mentor you is show that you participate and support the hobby instead of just asking questions. The top guys will be able to give you greater advise if they see your car firsthand. They all started out where you are. John will be the first to tell you that his first derbys were not much to write home about. But he started racing at PDDR, the Jewkes were the ones who he went to to learn. Now look at him, he is the one showing everyone else how its done (well maybe not JB, lol)
C'mon, send it in...you're not cool unless you do (How was the peer pressure I just applied?)

[/QUOTE]

I'm never going to get better and be able to pass on the knowledge that people know if I dont know. Its like saying the only this important about WWII is that we won. Dont ask why or how we won, just know we won.

 

[Chief]

VACATION??? You dont need to be on vacation, just tell the boss that due to the high importance of my scout and the PWD that you will be in WI for 2 days

I live in Ohio, and I still have a lot to learn. Watching those races I'm amazed at the rail running, no bobble, smooth and fast runs. I'm still hitting my head against the wall for bending my axles tring to use the rail riding technique.

I'd love to get to that point where I can send a car in, but I think for now taking notes on the do's and don'ts is my best bet. Plus I'm currently working 12hrs a day 7 days a week for 4 more weeks so I have 0 time to do anything PWD... which is very depressing.

Ohio is not too far from Wisconsin. I shall expect to see you here live in June for the Nationals

I did mention it to my wife

But I think my project at work will keep me from taking vacation until... November. Maybe next year /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[zeebzob]

I'm not sure I would compare WWII to putting a pinewood derby car on a treadmill....just sayin'

One other thing. I went back and watched that treadmill video again. I was just as bad the second time. I did notice that his rear wheels appeard to have graphite coating the wheel tread.
Don't do that!
Now, here's why: You need the rear wheels to have side to side traction. Coating them with graphilte will make the car fishtail the whole way down the track. I speak from experience. I have never seen a car wobble so bad as to when I tried that little "gem" of an inernet speed tip. I tried it, so you don't have to.

 

[Rocket car]

Zeebs , you have been a great mentor so far. Obsessederbydad needs someone like you in his area. I don't think he's found that right person quite yet. He will though.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

I'm not sure I would compare WWII to putting a pinewood derby car on a treadmill....just sayin'

One other thing. I went back and watched that treadmill video again. I was just as bad the second time. I did notice that his rear wheels appeard to have graphite coating the wheel tread.
Don't do that!
Now, here's why: You need the rear wheels to have side to side traction. Coating them with graphilte will make the car fishtail the whole way down the track. I speak from experience. I have never seen a car wobble so bad as to when I tried that little "gem" of an inernet speed tip. I tried it, so you don't have to.

Thank you. That explaination helps me understand, it also explains why my car did that in districts /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

 

[Quicktimederby]

The funny thing is that you won this years scout race because you but more time and EFFORT in it than the others. You took the emence amount of info out there some good most bad and were able to get a victory. I host a lot of scout races, something I started doing this year that has been really fun is at the end of the race taking the last place car making some adjustments to it and rerunning the 1st place car. I'm at around a 85% success rate of being able to make the last place car out proformance the 1st. 2 nights ago I was able to have this challenge again. In about 5-10 min of time making the proper adjustments and adding a great graphite (DD4H) we were able to turn a loser into a winner. After the race challenge the 1st place overall dad came a talk with me, saying that there was no way that could have happened, that they had spent hours tuning and breaking in their graphite, yes on the treadmill. That they even got speed axles and trued wheels. They had spent hundreds of dollars on tools and products and countless hours on the Internet. I had to inform him that while the car he and his boy built was fast with the things they had done, it's hard when the "good info on the net" is wrong. It is fun being able to show these types of dads that 5-10 mins of good info being put to use will out run their hours of tuning with the wrong info. Sometimes when a proven pro and champ says something's a bad idea, a better question than why its a bad idea is, what would you do instead of that.

 

[5KidsRacing]

Agree with Quicktime and great story...

I find that a lot of scout dad's that contact me have helped their Son build the car using 40 different steps that they read on online. They devoted a lot of time and their car is fast. What they don't understand is 10 of the 40 steps they used took them backwards, but since they are fast they think that every step was a super speed tip. The treadmill thing is one of those steps that is a negative, does nothing and it is just a waste of time. Unfortunately there are a lot of the "tips" out there on the old interweb. Good news though.... you won't find that stuff here. The majority of the guys that race here have tried all of those "tips" and can give you a heads up on what to do and what not to do...

 

[txchemist]

Quicktime, I agree, I use the DD4H graphite and most of the time- big speed improvement with last place- this is NOT magic because the last place fellow usually did not even lube. Once in a while the axles are in slots that make the car drag two wheels against the rail all the way, ( the big R kits from China are very bad) That takes some work, but fixable.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

good points quicktime and great story. I dont know if it'd come off as errogant if I would do that though since my son won. How do you help without looking like a prick?

 

[Kinser Racing]

Quicktime is the track owner not a competitor. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

good points quicktime and great story. I dont know if it'd come off as errogant if I would do that though since my son won. How do you help without looking like a prick?

 

[Quicktimederby]

I guess it would be the reason why I do it that I don't come off like a prick. I do it to help a usually very sad child have a good experience with their race. I don't do I to try and prove that I'm better than everyone. The only ones that feel like I'm a prick are the ones that feel they already have it all figured out and don't want to learn the correct way because they saw a video or read something on the Internet. And everything on the Internet is true! Atleast that is what a commercial said that I saw.

good points quicktime and great story. I dont know if it'd come off as errogant if I would do that though since my son won. How do you help without looking like a prick?

 

[Kinser Racing]

Sorry, I didn't mean he's not a competitor, he's an awesome builder and competitor. But, he doesn't compete at those scout races. /images/boards/smilies/tongue.gif