New Block V-grove degrees

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Pinecarpro

0
Dec 6, 2011
11
0
1
13
Hi All,

I'm new here but have been building cars for a long time. I saw a post when browsing this sight that some one wanted to know the degrees to the new V- groove block so I'm posting this for those that it might help that don't have the tools to work out the degrees and if anyone needs a different degree just let me know and I will work it out for you and let you know.

#27 drill blank is 4.118 degrees

#28 drill blank is 3.890 degrees

#29 drill blank is 3.662 degrees

#30 drill blank is 3.251 degrees

1/8 drill blank that comes with the new block V-groove 3.114 degrees

.124 gauge pin 2.977 degrees

#31 drill blank is 2.748 degrees

#32 drill blank is 2.565 degrees

.115 gauge pin 2.519 degrees

#36 drill blank is 2. degrees

#37 drill blank is 1.924 degrees

#40 drill blank is 1.558 degrees

#41 drill blank is 1.466 degrees

#43 drill blank is 1.054degrees

.087 gauge pin .962 degrees

#44 drill blank is .871 degrees

#45 drill blank is .688 degrees

#46 drill blank is .642 degrees

#47 drill blank is .458 degrees

#48 drill blank is .367 degrees

#49 drill blank is .229 degrees
 
THANKS Pinecarpro,, I have printed out the numbers and posted them above the bench.
ok

This is yet another example of why I like this forum. We have people like Pinecarpro who like to contribute for the better good.
smile
 
I am new here too. Just learned about cant and rail riding 3 days ago. We are using a drill press to drill the back axles the bottom is adjustable. what should we drill it at? We have already done 1 at 2 1/2 degrees and the wheels are still touching the body and not touching the outside of the axles when we have tested it. We are not using a block or silver bullet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Heidi
 
heidi said:
I am new here too. Just learned about cant and rail riding 3 days ago. We are using a drill press to drill the back axles the bottom is adjustable. what should we drill it at? We have already done 1 at 2 1/2 degrees and the wheels are still touching the body and not touching the outside of the axles when we have tested it. We are not using a block or silver bullet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Heidi
Click to expand...

If its stock BSA wheels with stock nails a good 3 degrees would be a good start because the stock nail is about .088 .089 and the stock bore is about .097 which means that there is more wheel slop. These guys here seem to be using .093 or .091 axles which is less wheel slop only 4 to 6 thousands so you would need a little more cant to make up for the extra slop. do the wheels still hit the body when you roll the car backwards?? if not then your alignment is off
 
heidi said:
I am new here too. Just learned about cant and rail riding 3 days ago. We are using a drill press to drill the back axles the bottom is adjustable. what should we drill it at? We have already done 1 at 2 1/2 degrees and the wheels are still touching the body and not touching the outside of the axles when we have tested it. We are not using a block or silver bullet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Heidi
Click to expand...

That is the trick with the Silver Bullet. You can't lay a block of wood on a drill press and get an identical drill on each side because because the wood is never perfectly square. You need to mount the wood to something that is is machined perfectly square, make a fence system for your drill press and then drill the holes. I always use around a 3 degree cant on any car I build regardless of axles. If the wheels are migrating to the body there is a good chance it could be a bad wheel too but it is usually a bad drill.
 
Pinecarpro said:
heidi said:
I am new here too. Just learned about cant and rail riding 3 days ago. We are using a drill press to drill the back axles the bottom is adjustable. what should we drill it at? We have already done 1 at 2 1/2 degrees and the wheels are still touching the body and not touching the outside of the axles when we have tested it. We are not using a block or silver bullet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Heidi
Click to expand...

If its stock BSA wheels with stock nails a good 3 degrees would be a good start because the stock nail is about .088 .089 and the stock bore is about .097 which means that there is more wheel slop. These guys here seem to be using .093 or .091 axles which is less wheel slop only 4 to 6 thousands so you would need a little more cant to make up for the extra slop. do the wheels still hit the body when you roll the car backwards?? if not then your alignment is off
Click to expand...

The cant has nothing to do with the amount of slop. The cant is so the rear wheels ride on the inside edge, thus less friction against the track.

The front cant (the opposite direction) is so the front wheel can be turned to achieve the correct amount of steer, but also that wheel also rides on the edge, in this case the outer edge, and the inside edge of the wheel lightly touches the rail. Two edges touching the track on the front wheel is less friction than if that wheel were flat.

The big trick is finding the right amount of steer for each individual car. We often say about 12 inches for a Street Stocker, but that is only a starting point. Each cars seems to want a bit more or less steer than 12 inches, and of course the amount of correct steer changes significantly from class to class.
 
OPARENNEN said:
Pinecarpro said:
heidi said:
I am new here too. Just learned about cant and rail riding 3 days ago. We are using a drill press to drill the back axles the bottom is adjustable. what should we drill it at? We have already done 1 at 2 1/2 degrees and the wheels are still touching the body and not touching the outside of the axles when we have tested it. We are not using a block or silver bullet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Heidi
Click to expand...

If its stock BSA wheels with stock nails a good 3 degrees would be a good start because the stock nail is about .088 .089 and the stock bore is about .097 which means that there is more wheel slop. These guys here seem to be using .093 or .091 axles which is less wheel slop only 4 to 6 thousands so you would need a little more cant to make up for the extra slop. do the wheels still hit the body when you roll the car backwards?? if not then your alignment is off
Click to expand...

The cant has nothing to do with the amount of slop. The cant is so the rear wheels ride on the inside edge, thus less friction against the track.

The front cant (the opposite direction) is so the front wheel can be turned to achieve the correct amount of steer, but also that wheel also rides on the edge, in this case the outer edge, and the inside edge of the wheel lightly touches the rail. Two edges touching the track on the front wheel is less friction than if that wheel were flat.

The big trick is finding the right amount of steer for each individual car. We often say about 12 inches for a Street Stocker, but that is only a starting point. Each cars seems to want a bit more or less steer than 12 inches, and of course the amount of correct steer changes significantly from class to class.
Click to expand...

I never said the cant affects the slop but the slop affects the cant or should I say the way the wheel sits. Lets say you have 2 cars with the same axles and with the same degree of cant now you put 1 set of wheels on one car with a small bore and the other with a large bore the cars will sit different. The larger bore wheeled car will sit flatter like the smaller bore wheel with a little less cant.
 
[/QUOTE]

I always use around a 3 degree cant on any car I build regardless of axles. If the wheels are migrating to the body there is a good chance it could be a bad wheel too but it is usually a bad drill.
[/QUOTE]

Only for wide wheels such as BSA and Awana wheels correct?
 
I have been experimenting with the new Silver Bullet (John's pricing and racer discount pushed me into the fray). While I am still working on the best setup and comparing it to my past method, one of the issues I have come across is the short 1/8" drill blank that is supplied and availaibilty/price of additional/longer blanks of various sizes. The short pin is sometimes hard to locate properly and know that it is secure on my (full size) drill press table - it can even slip through the holes on the table. While the V-groove promotes flexibility, it does not secure the pin.

I first tried some hardened drill rod to be longer 'pins', but it didn't appear to straight enough for the job (we are dealing in very small angles here). I have found fractional size, longer (e.g. 6") drill blanks for a little over $5 + shipping. Wire gauge sizes are much harder to come by and I haven't seen any longer metric blanks. Of course with $$$ you can go custom, but one thought I had was to purchase some 12" "aircraft extension drills" that have minimum flute length and long shanks and then either use-as-is or cut off the flute. They might take a slight polish, but can be had for under $5.

Does the long drill idea make sense ? Are there better alternatives ? I don't think it makes sense to spend more on the pins than the tool.
 
Quad,,
I went to Home Depot bought a long Milwaukee 1/8" drill bit for under $5 bucks and cut off 7 1/2" of it and use it for my pin. can get at it easy under the Silver Bullet.
 
If you have a Fastenal in your area they have harden drill rod 3' in stock 1/8" $2.80 + tax they can order smaller wire sizes. They cost about the same and they are not generally a cheaper store but you can get most anything
 
Thanks for the feedback guys. As the son of a machinist though, I have a jig with a 1/2 thou per division dial caliper for squaring my table from side to side (takes a bit of time though). For those using the drill rod, are you putting some downward pressure on the block ? I ask because I first tried some hardened drill rod and noticed that it wasn't as straight and/or stiff as I would have liked and it appeared to induce a slight angle (without pressure). That's why I started looking at the drill blanks and long drills.
 
Thanks for tip on the pin issue guys, I just got My Silver Bullet today/ now I just need to find a drill press
What did you use to cut it SoGone
 
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