New guy here

[36racin]

New guy here. Fairly familiar with building some good derby cars. Having built quite a few cars for the boys during their scouts years. My nephew wanted help this year building his derby car so I gave in and went all in. Helped build his car and wasnt able to attend the races this morning. He took 1st in Weblos and 2nd in pack with his fastest speed on a 40' Best track at 3.19. How's this time? When my sons races we had parents standing at the finish line saying who won at the local level and the district on had places finished(no times).

Problem started this morning when my brotherinlaw got to the race location which had just finished putting together a brand new Best track they had just recieved the evening before. So as you can guess no work had been done to the track to remove the burs at the lane joints. A few of the dads wanted to see the cars ride down the track so of course the car we built was one that lined up. And you have probably guessed it the car hit a joint and went airborne. I dont know how he did it but got the car put back together and pulled off the place and time above.

I had set up the car as a rail rider(1st time ever) Tested using treadmill and had the car tracking slightly right as I wanted it. I had bought several of the DW tools but I am now second guessing that. My normal setup was three wheels touching ground, low profile car, lead weight as far back as I could get it, with cleaned up axles and bores.
Questions
I see some post about negative and positive camber. How do I obtain this? Whats this for?

How do you all drill the axle holes? With a tool or freehand? I tried a DW tool for the first time.

Does the DW rail rider tool help? Or any of these tools helpful?

I'm probably looking at rebuilding the whole car before district. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,

Sorry for the long post,

Todd

 

[DNA RACING]

the cant is the angle of the camber, the backs are run with the tops angled in and the bottoms out. the front is angled with the top out and bottom in. by doing this the wheel rides on the edge which is faster. the front wheel rides on the outside edge and using a bent axle you can adjust the amount of steer the car has, this brings the wheel into contact with the rail just on the .001 or where the inner edge is touching. it also stabilizes the car. if it wiggles add more steer. most if not all of us at the NPWDRL use the BLOCK to drill our holes at the proper angles, it just can not be beat. slots can be cut under the drilled hole to meet the requirement of slots must be used. My personal experience with the "other" tools is they are pretty much junk and are alot of trouble for inconsistent results that are at BEST hit or miss. but better than nothing i guess. if you have a drillpress then get the BLOCK, and save yourself alot of time and grief.

 

[SoGone]

When I bought the "BLOCK" I gave away my DW tools. No axle benting ....easy to drill the Correct cant,

 

[W racing]

Used the block tonight with my son. He liked drilling the axle holes. The best way to get a well aligned car...

 

[datnr]

36: Without the investment in a quality drill press and Block, I would buy predrilled pine blocks from DerbyDad. He has lots of options for the drill setup

 

[36racin]

I do have access to the tools needed to do most derby car work. I have always been able to build fast enough cars to become pack champ and atleast place in district. I was attempting to better my cars from years ago by purchasing some tools I thought at the time would help me gain some more advantage. What I found out while trying to tune is I didn't know how to and it was hard trying to get the car to steer as I wanted to. And I was even more confused. Probably should have just kept doing what I had always done. But now that I have went back and looked at the past race videos I saw my other cars had problems that slowed them down. I have the time and space available to build the cars and even might try competing on you guys level. I hear there is a group of guys down here in Baton Rouge, LA that races as well. So if you all will be patient with me I'd like to ask question and learn.

Where can I see the "Block" being used?

If you were to buy or build a test track what would you get? Wood, formica covered, plastic or aluminum?

Thanks for all you help and support,

Todd

 

[datnr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlwQfL0cOiE

 

[ZZ Racing]

Aluminum Best Track is the only way to go. 1 lane to 8 lane what ever you desire. http://www.besttrack.com/

 

[PxTx]

Funny how I disagree. I am getting into this for reasons that are probably different that most. I am building for Nostalgia. I bought a used wooden track because that is what I raced on almost 30 years ago. I trust if I can build it for speed on that track it should do well on an aluminum track too.

There are certainly penty of "pro's" and less "con's" for the aluminum track, but something just seems wrong about having a PineWOOD derby on a metal track.

My son is only 1-1/2 so by the time he is gonna play with this stuff, the track will be really "vintage" and out of date. I still restore and build Muscle Cars with my family so I guess I'm sentimental for doing things the old way.

Choose whatever you identify with the most.

 

[Quicktimederby]

I do agree also with what has been said. If it were me I would definitely buy a pre drilled block from dd4h, they are cheap and perfect! You can then focus on finding and tuning the real speed. To use the block effectively you have to have a precision drill press. Mine just has to much end play to get the holes how I want them. The other tools are no where near as good as a BLOCK drilled block. As for the alignment there have been a few post on here about it. Rears on a neg. camber-cant, front dominant wheel posi. camber-cant.

 

[36racin]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Kinda looks like I need to determine if I'm going to drop the $$$ on a test track or not. Since there is not one available to test my cars on. I could always do what I had done for my boys years ago and just drill the axle holes straight and my nephew would be happy with it and the car would do well. But I'd like for him to do better. Not to mention my fix for speed. I'd actually like to see the difference from one of my cars to one built with canted axles and other speed tricks and stay within the pack/district rules. So where to begin? Buy the block or a pre drilled block? Use the axles out of the box or buy speed axles? I used the tungsten cylinders for the first time on his car and liked that I didn't have to melt and pour lead. Think I might buy some cubes for the rebuild. Again thanks for all your assistance.

 

[OPARENNEN]

To start, just create a 2' by 8' test board. Raise it 1.5 inches at one end. Use a level to assure it is level (side to side).
Then just ask what the veer should be for each class.
On Bearing and Mod cars, it should be 2" or less
On Pure stock and Stock, ask others, since that is my worst classes, but I would guess about 13 inches.

Wheel Bores and Axles according to DD5H's DVD.

With all that, you should be in the top 10.

 

[SoGone]

36.. Buy the pre drilled blocks from DD4H... it a good deal and always drilled dead on .. A lot of the Pros on the circuit use them.

 

[snowmobileguy]

Another new guy here as well. Wish I had discovered this Forum earlier! It is very informative.

We have our pack race this Saturday and we have our car set up as a rail rider with the pro rail rider tool. It says to bend the rears to 2.5 negative cant and the front dominant wheel to 1.5. I am running three wheels touching. From what I am reading it appears that the front wheel should be bend at 3-4 degrees with a positive cant. I understand on how to bend the rear axles but not sure on how to go about bending the front and running with a positive cant. Any help on how to do this would greatly be appreciated. I do not have the block but it looks like that would be a good investment.

I bought the Derbydad Krytox oil blend. If anyone could tell me what the best way to apply and how much would also be greatly appreciated. I am assuming just a drop or two would suffice.

Thanks!!!

 

[DNA RACING]

the front can needs to be positive, if you rotate the axle 180 degrees it will be right, then turn it counter clockwise to add steer. if the car wiggles, add more steer. Usualy I just put 2 drops of the oil on the axle and push it into the body. everybody has their own way of doing it. Cant help with bending the axle, my way is crude and i dont want to hand out poor info. someone will be along to give you a good way to do it.

 

[W racing]

Use a scrap wheel. Place the axle in it and mark with a sharpie where you want the bend. Place the axle in dremmel or other similar device. I have the drill press atachment for it which works well... Place a small file on the spinning axle where you want the groove. Make a groove. Place axle in vise near groove pointy end down. Place screw driver in bend and hit with a hammer.

 

[datnr]

Place a small file on the spinning axle where you want the groove.  Make a groove. 

Is the next step to use a file or sandpaper to smooth the edges of the groove? I did not and felt the groove scraping my nice polished hub when inserting the axle. My first attempt at oil, with the DVD, has not improved speed yet. It definely takes practice, patience and cleanliness

 

[36racin]

Ok so I must have missed something when I was watching the DW pro rail rider axle bending tool. I used 1.5 degrees of bend on my axles. Must have missed 2.5 on the rears and 1.5 on the front. What I could not get was the tire riding away from the body of the car. If you read the start of this post we had trajady the morning of the race. I was working and unable to be at the races. Yet the car rans well enough to take 1st in Weblos and 2nd in pack.

That said from what I understand the dd4h bodies come pre-drilled to the correct cant without bending axles? Which axles and wheels would be best for use on a pinewood derby car for use of our district race?

 

[Chief]

[font="times new roman, times, serif"]I had the same kind of question on the rear axles and DD4H was pretty stern when he told me "Do not Bend the rear axles! Put them in canted" He said trying to align 3 or 4 wheels is very difficult. I must say I dont normally listen to my dad but this time I listened to this dad and well, we won every race by a minimum of a car length. Best of luck to you![/font]

 

[36racin]

I know exactly how long it takes to tune a car with three bent axles. I used my treadmill rolling slowly to determine how the car would run. It took forever to get the car running like I wanted. Then the trajady the next morning happened so I naturally thought the car would be toast. I think the only thing that saved us was the marks on the axles. Brother-in-law was here when I tuned and must have remembered the general direction of the marks for the affected axle that had came out during the accident.