I am now seeing this stupid rule being added. The front of the car must be at least 1/8" thick. I would love an explanation for this one.
New stupid rule
- Thread starter DerbyDad4Hire
- Start date
- Nov 24, 2011
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I would make a 1/4 inch center of it an 1/8 thick and make the rest pointed. It should satisfy the rule. But ya it's completely stupid. It could be to keep people from buying ebay cars, who knows.
Ok, not to say I know it all or anything, I was sanding my car down to an edge on the front thirty years ago. I mean WTF what the point?
You think that is stupid... I have helped my buddy and his kids for 4 years, this year they changed the rules to include: 4 on the floor, no bent axles and the head of the axle can't be chamfered.... lol.... challenge accepted....
People that dont win always seem to make up more and more rules so thier kids can have a better chance at winning...Then even with the new "Stupid" rules they once again loose to the same kid that won before and cant seem to figure out why so they make up another rule...
Go get'em 5Kids
Go get'em 5Kids
Here is the way to make it fair and easy for every scout race:
No cars can be built ahead of time.
Have a "car building work shop" for about 30 minutes before the start of the race.
Each father and scout team gets a kit.
Each team pounds all four the axles with wheels into the block.
Their creation is taken the leaders table where a puff of graphite goes into each hub and washers are taped on until it weighs 5 oz.
The car is then dropped into a good sized box.
Once all the cars have been collected, the box is closed and gently shaken to mix the cars.
One by one the scouts, without looking (blind folds may be needed), reach in and picks out a car at random.
Next they race.
Talk about fair; now every kid gets an equal chance at disappointment.
pwddc said:
Here is the way to make it fair and easy for every scout race:
No cars can be built ahead of time.
Have a "car building work shop" for about 30 minutes before the start of the race.
Each father and scout team gets a kit.
Each team pounds all four the axles with wheels into the block.
Their creation is taken the leaders table where a puff of graphite goes into each hub and washers are taped on until it weighs 5 oz.
The car is then dropped into a good sized box.
Once all the cars have been collected, the box is closed and gently shaken to mix the cars.
One by one the scouts, without looking (blind folds may be needed), reach in and picks out a car at random.
Next they race.
Talk about fair; now every kid gets an equal chance at disappointment.
Funny, but then how would the PACK LEADERS kid win.
Ironic that this post came today about changes of rules.
Tonight I was informed that the rules for our pack are completely being changed from last year to make it more "fair" for people that do not have tools.
I heard second hand that one of the scout leaders had used the word "cheating" in the discusion.
Last years rules allowed for drilled holes with a 4 3/8" wheelbase and any lubricant. The block of wood and the axles that came in the kit had to be used.
This year it will be axle slots and graphite only.
There was even talk about no bent axles for rail running.
Maybe in the future Scout PWD won't even be a race, it will just be an activity to earn a belt loop instead.
Disappointing to say the least.
Tonight I was informed that the rules for our pack are completely being changed from last year to make it more "fair" for people that do not have tools.
I heard second hand that one of the scout leaders had used the word "cheating" in the discusion.
Last years rules allowed for drilled holes with a 4 3/8" wheelbase and any lubricant. The block of wood and the axles that came in the kit had to be used.
This year it will be axle slots and graphite only.
There was even talk about no bent axles for rail running.
Maybe in the future Scout PWD won't even be a race, it will just be an activity to earn a belt loop instead.
Disappointing to say the least.
Rules like these and I have seen, been approached with countless other stupid rules... I can assure you of this that the Mid America Derby - with continue onward with the fair rules that we have, that allow creativity, engineering, and the true ideals that we are supposed to be passing on to our Cub Scouts... that together a car is built and together a real world application of technology and engineering can be applied to get a better result. Some kids will win some will loose. Isn't scouting an opportunity for us to be involved in helping shape character helping teach kids about the way the real world works... ?
So here is my feeling on the rules, and this feeling applies to many other things as well from work to politics. Regardless of things being fair or allowing creativity, most rules like this either are not enforced or are impossible to be enforced. This just makes people question others for cheating, and bottom line just makes the entire race uncomfortable. What is gained by kicking kids out of a race? Should people play fairly? Of course, but I don't believe that walking an 8 year old out in front of everyone and labeling him and his family a cheater teaches anyone anything.
I have to admit that as I read through this thread my blood pressure correspondingly rises.
Having just come off our pack race, there was a big build-up to the race where the leaders emphatically sent messages out saying no kits would be allowed and how they recognized all of the kits sold online. And they clearly stated that if a kit was used your scout will be disqualified. So we get there and the majority are the kits you find at Michaels/Hobby Lobby. It totally chafed me cause there are plenty of people that probably need to run pre-built items cause they don't have a garage full of tools or in some cases don't even have a garage. So without the resources, IMO people should be able to get by with whatever they can and if it means little Jimmy wants to run the pre-built hummer then let him.
It got even better as I spoke to people throughout the day about car building only to find some folks admitting to running grooved axles, which weren't allowed. The irony was that they were bumped after the 2nd round, but I wish the scout leaders would just make the rules simple and let you run whatcha brung similar to Mid-America's Scout class (graphite though).
Instead you've got our pack that says it has to be 4 on the floor, emphatic about using the approved BSA kit#17006, blah, blah. And then you've got less mechanically inclined dads scrambling the morning of trying to pass inspection. I helped one poor guy as his hands were shaking trying to frantically get a front axle better seated to get the wheel to touch (geesh) since the inspection guys told him to fix it.
All of this non-sense had a negative effect on my son as people would yell cheaters (in a joking manner but it would still sting) because we were winning by 2-3 car lengths. In talking to dads during the race and in year's past, I've told them all of the knowledge is available online. Yet it would be shocking to hear that they wouldn't even do the basic prep work of polishing axles or even understood what center of mass was.
I know I'm rambling but this thread lit me up. It's DD4H's fault. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
Having just come off our pack race, there was a big build-up to the race where the leaders emphatically sent messages out saying no kits would be allowed and how they recognized all of the kits sold online. And they clearly stated that if a kit was used your scout will be disqualified. So we get there and the majority are the kits you find at Michaels/Hobby Lobby. It totally chafed me cause there are plenty of people that probably need to run pre-built items cause they don't have a garage full of tools or in some cases don't even have a garage. So without the resources, IMO people should be able to get by with whatever they can and if it means little Jimmy wants to run the pre-built hummer then let him.
It got even better as I spoke to people throughout the day about car building only to find some folks admitting to running grooved axles, which weren't allowed. The irony was that they were bumped after the 2nd round, but I wish the scout leaders would just make the rules simple and let you run whatcha brung similar to Mid-America's Scout class (graphite though).
Instead you've got our pack that says it has to be 4 on the floor, emphatic about using the approved BSA kit#17006, blah, blah. And then you've got less mechanically inclined dads scrambling the morning of trying to pass inspection. I helped one poor guy as his hands were shaking trying to frantically get a front axle better seated to get the wheel to touch (geesh) since the inspection guys told him to fix it.
All of this non-sense had a negative effect on my son as people would yell cheaters (in a joking manner but it would still sting) because we were winning by 2-3 car lengths. In talking to dads during the race and in year's past, I've told them all of the knowledge is available online. Yet it would be shocking to hear that they wouldn't even do the basic prep work of polishing axles or even understood what center of mass was.
I know I'm rambling but this thread lit me up. It's DD4H's fault. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
If these folks ran the Poker World Series, they would have outlawed "Straight Flushes", "4 of a kind", probably even "full houses" because the odds against you getting such a hand are so slim that you must have cheated, the same way you always win the Pinewood Derby!!, I mean what are the odds one car could win 20 heats in a row!!!
So what does the 1/8" or 1/4" rule going to do??
IMO- Not much as long as the prep, alignment are done right. Do they think they can stop a faster car by making the front end thick? My first car is at least that much and glued axles (Kit Rules)... It smoked the faster Dad built car which his kid went to Districts... Crazy thing is he and one other did the check in and glued weights to other scout cars to get them to 5 oz He did not ask if we wanted to and of course it goes where ever he wanted it to go.... It has at least a 1/4" front end if not more... This just kills me with all the changes..
So stupid question time ... Why don't they just make an official rule for all Scout PWD Race Nation wide and be done with each pack/District rule and changes coming out all the time?
Why is BSA Shops selling Krytox oil if it can't be used?? Why is it considered cheating using Tungsten weights verses lead? Just throwing it out there what rule change is going to be next to keep a kid who saved his money to by better weights be punished???
So they will tell us that we bought a kit offline if we choose to cut it like anything the see.. YA RIGHT!!! I am video taping my son doing his car so I can throw it up on the big screen when he and I get accused of cheating... Not playing that game..
I had a conversation last night and asked why do we not have a standard set of rules not just the box.. I can get a box kit and get BSA Parts that anyone can get and no one would know... The reply was keep your receipts to show you have bought them at Scout Shop and fight it if they say no your DQ'd.
So I become an upset parent because Billy John Don Bobs dad is running the show and says no Your Cheating or That the parts used are not BSA... HAHAHAHA ... PROVE IT !!!
Papa V
IMO- Not much as long as the prep, alignment are done right. Do they think they can stop a faster car by making the front end thick? My first car is at least that much and glued axles (Kit Rules)... It smoked the faster Dad built car which his kid went to Districts... Crazy thing is he and one other did the check in and glued weights to other scout cars to get them to 5 oz He did not ask if we wanted to and of course it goes where ever he wanted it to go.... It has at least a 1/4" front end if not more... This just kills me with all the changes..
So stupid question time ... Why don't they just make an official rule for all Scout PWD Race Nation wide and be done with each pack/District rule and changes coming out all the time?
Why is BSA Shops selling Krytox oil if it can't be used?? Why is it considered cheating using Tungsten weights verses lead? Just throwing it out there what rule change is going to be next to keep a kid who saved his money to by better weights be punished???
So they will tell us that we bought a kit offline if we choose to cut it like anything the see.. YA RIGHT!!! I am video taping my son doing his car so I can throw it up on the big screen when he and I get accused of cheating... Not playing that game..
I had a conversation last night and asked why do we not have a standard set of rules not just the box.. I can get a box kit and get BSA Parts that anyone can get and no one would know... The reply was keep your receipts to show you have bought them at Scout Shop and fight it if they say no your DQ'd.
So I become an upset parent because Billy John Don Bobs dad is running the show and says no Your Cheating or That the parts used are not BSA... HAHAHAHA ... PROVE IT !!!
Papa V
5KidsRacing said:
The 4 wheel touching rule is beyond dumb, and it only hurts the people who don't know what they're doing.
Last year at my daughter's Powderpuff Derby, the rules that were emailed to everyone did not say 4 on the floor, as they had the previous few years. So we, and others built 3 wheel rail runners.
Showed up at the race, and the idiot lady running it had a different set of rules that said 4 on the floor. Somehow, that part got deleted from EVERYONE's copy of the rules. So naturally, she had lots of people showing her their set of rules and complaining, and rightfully so.
Well, we all obviously had to modify our cars to get that 4th wheel touching. And guess what....the people that knew how to build fast cars were still the fastest cars.
The people who had built accidental 3 wheelers had to go over to the work table and try and get the 4th wheel down...and you had Moms who brought their kid's cars in breaking the slots like crazy. Ruined a ton of cars.
I personally helped fix ten or so that the parent had broken, trying to move the axle down. And none of these people had built fast cars. All they did with that rule was screw the less-informed.
The biggest problem with any BSA or Girl Scout Derby is uninformed people running the race.
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