I got the updated Rules via email adding the Pro Stock Class 13 days before the Race Date. It was at this time that the Rules that you currently see online changed completely to the confusing wording for the Stock Car Class. We had to build a new car for this race to comply to the Original Rules for the Stock Car Class which I went back and forth via email for clarification on things such as canting, mold matching, grooving axles, etc.... It seems that the Rule change at the 11th hour benefited a few people that were in the know on how the inspection process was going to be run. If we qualify next year, we will probably run the Pro Stock Class to avoid these issues.
NYC BSA National Chapionships
- Thread starter Falcon777
- Start date
That explains it. Jim reviewed the rules in mid May and received verbal clarification in regards to the strict rules and inspection about that time frame. I was shocked to see the rules the other day after the race which were substantially different. Also, 11 days out, the few who got the changes would have little time to build, prep and test a new car especially when considering travel itineraries. Obviously, this local pack was tipped off in advance and explains why they were substantially faster than the national field. I see no reason why the rules were changed so close to the race - simply does not make any sense at all especially with competitors attending from all over the country. Was there a fix in, who knows but this is so bizzar that it simply cannot be ruled out.
- Nov 24, 2011
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Sounds like a bureaucracy. Lets make the goal 10 yards further at about halftime during the game.
Falcon777 said:
My best guess: http://pinewoodderbycoach.com/Secret_Derby_Lube.html
(Although DD4H has refuted his speed claims with results from his own graphite: http://www.shop.derbydad4hire.com/Zero-Friction-Graphite-Lube-T-016.htm)
Coach claims he beats oil. DD4H has shown he can't even beat hob-e-lube.
I love hearing PWD speed claims. Only John is willing to put on a $2K event with anybody free to use any brand prep. When the money's on the line, the top guys only run John's prep supplies and oil. (At least I've heard that from a few of the top guys. I can't confirm on Bullets prep though.)
The NYC BSA World championship organizers instituted major rule amendments less than two weeks before the event and only a few emails went out. Those who received an email had little or no time to implement the changes that removed canted wheels, three runner, etc. restrictions. Obviously the local pack was tipped off since they were virtually the only cars that showed up built to the "New Rule" specs while the rest of the country showed up with highly restricted cars. So it is clear now why the top three local pack finishers had such a consistent huge time gap over the rest of the field. AND there was no wheel/axle/lube inspection probably because the new rules relaxed the majority of the wheel rules. What a complete debacle for such a huge event. Does anyone know why the last minute changes were made?
One thing I notice at NPWDRL and MA's is the fact that proxy guys will win classes. This tells me it's a fair race. When it's nothing but locals who win and this went on that sucks. I doubt they will do this again, as they said to have a five year plan. The top venues have had many years experience with quality rule sets. They are established and run like clock work. This is a very new inexperienced venue who have no clue how to run anything close to what we have been racing in. They can learn. I bet this will help them get better but I agree, if I had gone from Oregon to run and found a rule change had occurred that I know would have gained me a ton of speed I'd be pissed. Good job to the pack who won, just kick there but's next year!
I guess that he had the fastest car to the original Rule Set. As I watching the Heats, I could not figure out why he was racing against cars what I thought should have been in the Pro Stock Class. I guess the only thing for Stock was that the axles needed to be in the location of the grooves and Pro Stock you could move them. My Son was very happy with how his car ran and he got his biggest trophy ever. He also got compliments from a couple of the Race Officials on the workmanship on his car.
winning Pack builds cars like they race in the pack all the time- canted, rail running whatever.
They do not even attempt to meet the "rules". At a late date- they complain that the rules were miss leading and all the boys did a lot of hard work and now they can't race to the confusing rules- why don't we just modify the rules so OUR pack can race it isn't their fault the rules were confusing. The organizers are made to feel THEY caused the problem and so to make it right- they cave. Happens if they are not prepared to stick to their rules and flunk a few rule benders-
They do not even attempt to meet the "rules". At a late date- they complain that the rules were miss leading and all the boys did a lot of hard work and now they can't race to the confusing rules- why don't we just modify the rules so OUR pack can race it isn't their fault the rules were confusing. The organizers are made to feel THEY caused the problem and so to make it right- they cave. Happens if they are not prepared to stick to their rules and flunk a few rule benders-
txchemist said:
That happened at the district race that I was asked to help put on in our council. One of the boys I helped worked his own axles and I showed him what to do.. When he was so fast that he was whipping all of the other bear scouts, they questioned his car... so I pulled a rear axle to prove that it was legal. But when another car was beating his time in Webelos, they did nothing to look at that car. I told the dad to call BS on that, but they were afraid to cause a rift with the cubs.
Now I am on the rules committee for the district, and I mentioned opening up the axle rules because they cannot be checked without tearing apart a car (which they will not do) and I am hearing it from a few people... The district chair says "the parts are supposed to be from the kit". I asked him how he can tell if the axle is from the kit or not. He just looked at me.....
If you cannot enforce the rule, the rule should not be in there. IMO
The more open the rules the better. Offer workshops to teach kids and dads. Share this site and information. Make a video of the workshops you held with shots of the racers learning and building. Show the video before the race on the big overhead projector. When the families who complain see that the fast racers have been going to the workshops, and working on the car for months, not hours, they tend to understand why some cars dominate. You get what you give!
This is exactly why I have defended the rules at MA -- because it is nearly impossible to enforce such strict rules and it only makes a race unfair. Rules have to be enforceable and even after running MA for the last 5 years are we very close... I can assure you that it is VERY HARD to run a fair National ... let alone World Championship Race - My Hat is off to those that put the time in to organize such an event - hopefully as we did you take all the plus and minus from the year before - re-group and redo... you work hard to improve things each year... and hopefully you eventually get there. I am VERY FORTUNATE that I have such an AMAZING Crew that is so willing to donate their time and expertise for the MAPWD - Everyone wants to win and the lengths that people go to is amazing... it is what fuels the need to improve and expand, hopefully in line with what the whole pinewood derby was intended to be in line with an experience of winning, losing, building a car with a scout together... if a scout and his family went out to NYC to race from somewhere else around the country hopefully it was a resoundingly positive experience that the family will always cherish and remember.
I was just talking to Derbychip and I can not wait for next years Mid America Pinewood Derby... we start our committee meetings in September and we have already established a date for the 2016 event. I am sure we might tweak some rules and add some new things... We promise to be very clear and concise with our rules - as long as we can keep up with the innovation. Cant Wait !!!
I was just talking to Derbychip and I can not wait for next years Mid America Pinewood Derby... we start our committee meetings in September and we have already established a date for the 2016 event. I am sure we might tweak some rules and add some new things... We promise to be very clear and concise with our rules - as long as we can keep up with the innovation. Cant Wait !!!
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