Oil confusion

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I am trying to figure out the very best process for the oil. I read here that derbydad developed it. Evolution and Spacewalker claim they came up with it and taught derbydad. White mountain claims he found it all. Slt claims he discovered it and I have also heard that Sporty taught him. I see evo now claims some guy named wheeler taught him which really confuses me even more. I have even heard Cash was the master of it all. I want to use the best process and stay away from the imposters. I see several versions for sale. I am asking here because I think this is the only place everyone can post. I would really like to know what to use and I am also very curious where it all came from. Pinewood derby as an industry sure seems to house a lot of liars. People I thought were friends bad talk each other pretty immensely. I have other questions that perplex me also.
 
The old pinewood derby bible by Jobe has details about the wax-oil interface and he uses the carboard rod to polish the bore before the final polishing process. We all stand upon others shoulders. We all strive to develop new techniques. This sport is over fifty years old and I'm always ready to recognize the mentors of the present and past. This site helps us all.
 
You're in the right place here. Don't worry yourself about the things that have gone on in the past. Stick with what you find here and you'll be GOLDEN. The NPWDRL is the fastest league in the world. To be the best you need to learn from the best. Get your stuff from DerbyDad4Hire and you won't go wrong. Not only are his parts second to none but so is his service.
 
NLR, you will never find the truth to your question. You will just need to find for yourself who you want to trust and invest your time and efforts with. You are here so I think you already know the answer to your question. Like with everything when something of value comes out there is never a shortage of people wanting to take credit. Ask Al Gore he created the Internet just ask him he'll tell ya.
As for what process works the best , I use Johns process and I know that most others do also. Does that mean that other don't have good insite on it and good ideas? No, you got to figure out what works best for you. But as for a foundation DD4H process is incredible, and the fastest around.
 
I forgot that AllGore invented the Internet.

Quicktimederby said:
NLR, you will never find the truth to your question. You will just need to find for yourself who you want to trust and invest your time and efforts with. You are here so I think you already know the answer to your question. Like with everything when something of value comes out there is never a shortage of people wanting to take credit. Ask Al Gore he created the Internet just ask him he'll tell ya. As for what process works the best , I use Johns process and I know that most others do also. Does that mean that other don't have good insite on it and good ideas? No, you got to figure out what works best for you. But as for a foundation DD4H process is incredible, and the fastest around.
 
Mr. Ledbetter
We're pretty good at spotting Imposters around here. There is people here that could answer your question. At NPWDRL we don't hang our hats on that old and tired drama. Your right, it is an open forum here and that is part of our philosophy of doing things better. Like Quicktime said use what process works best for you. Just curios, what part of Nevada are you from, I know a lot of people that live there.
 
Next Level Racing said:
Evolution and Spacewalker claim they came up with it and taught derbydad.
I have heard that one several times now too!
rofl


Lots of people have come up with great ideas for pinewood derby. You guys have it very lucky. I have raced since 2007 and a few people have freely given me help with no strings attached. JAC, Cam Car and ALine Performance. They did not tell me everything they knew but they were the first ones to help me. Information was very hard to come by and all you would ever get was bits and pieces. There have been two MAJOR discoveries in pinewood derby since I have been racing that have changed the course of league racing and made everyone competitive.

1st- The Block. Jewkes put out the tool that made building a fast car about as simple as it could be. Before the Block everyone was trying to bend their rear axles and it was a literal nightmare. The best racer at the time was Leo 234 Racing. He seemed to have mastered the rear canting first and he was using oil. The Block encountered MASSIVE resistance when it was introduced simply because it was me and the Jewkes marketing it. The Derby Worx clan pulled out all stops to bury us and failed miserably. Once I had the Block I shot to the top of the list. The thing is that the Block was not exclusive to me. A lot of racers got one or made their own version. I was successful because I built a shop from an empty warehouse and set up track and wore out a path alongside it testing and learning a lot of the things that the more experienced racers already knew but would never share. The Block gave every racer at least a .03 gain in speed which is unheard of.

2nd- THE Oil Process. Some people were using oil with success but until I made the switch the only racer that had surpassed me using oil was Carolina Gravity. Leo 234, Wheeler, and the rest of the original oil gang retired off as I was coming on but at the time they would not have been able to beat my graphite cars. Carolina Gravity pushed me into the oil research mode and we had what amounted to our own "arms race". I started working with it in the winter of 2009. I say I because I was alone when I started forming what is common today. Did I invent every step? NO! I listened and read what others said worked for other aspects of the polishing process. I used my common sense and put it all together. The trick is I spent more time than I could count testing and buying product after product to try. Breakthrough #1 came before the 2009 Lima Land Open. I found the Dupont multiuse spray. I was told 2 years before by railhugger that he used the Dupont silicone in some fashion to make his oil cars run fast but I never tried to figure it out. I learned if I sprayed the axles and the wheelbores and then added oil I picked up .01 over my graphite cars. THat was huge at the time. The trick was it had to be fresh and at best you got 50 runs before it died. I took 3 cars to Lima and ran in 6 classes with the 3 cars and took home 3 firsts and a 2nd and a 3rd I believe. (Something like that) In the classes the cars were supposed to be in it wasn't even close. My big axle cars almost beat the best needle cars. After Lima I went back to work testing. My brother came into the shop and started helping right before the Lima trip. THe next discovery was LEGEND. This is where the explosion came in and was the single most important discovery for oil. I am not sure of this but I think Carolina Gravity had this part figured out but did not have the spray for the axle. If we had been working together we would have had the answer a lot quicker. When I added the 2nd polish to the equation and quit spraying the wheel bore and just sprayed the axles the time drop was unbelievable. I remember when I found it was right before the King of the Hill race in 2009. InSuspense was at the shop when I first ran the car down the track and we both nearly fell over when the time popped up. We had to run it many times before we believed it. The foundation was then set. Me, my brother and InSuspense took to massive testing of all the sprays and polishes we could find to get the very best. The funny thing is that no combination was ever faster than the original Legend/Dupont combo that I did initially until my brother brought in a can of Jigaloo that his wife told him we needed to try. The Jig turned into the shop secret. It was about .005 faster than the blue can but it was devastating to the wheels if misapplied. It also lasted A LONG TIME! I used this to sweep the King of the Hill and we flat out dominated the racing for the next several months to the point of people literally whining and complaining of quitting. This is when I put on the oil workshop and what created the monster we have today. Racers like Evo and Spacewalker were not even near A class racers when it came to big axle cars. Spacewalker was a product of my shop when I was in NC. They both sat through the workshops just like the majority of the big name racers today that everyone holds in high regard. There have been several more like Murph that learned and then turned it against me touting the Derby Worx line. I should have thought of that before I showed ANYONE what I was doing. Hindsight is 20/20. During the workshops the one thing I did not teach people was Jigaloo and as a matter of fact I told people it was bad. In fact it WAS BAD if you did not use it right and I knew that you always keep one ace in the hole. I also knew I would be expected to replace all the wheels people ruined trying to use it if I recommended it. Unfortunately my brother had not learned that lesson yet and did not realize the few little snakes that are out there that quickly buddy up just to get info then leave you high and dry. SOme people were even mad at me like Spacewalker because I did not tell them EVERYTHING. LOL, I helped everyone get .03 faster and they were mad because I didn't get them the last.005. For those of you that did get mad at that you can [edited for content]. The shop secret got let out and now you have all the "experts." It is my understanding that even my secret to the oil mixture was given out to Spacewalker too. The credit for that secret goes to Donelson Gravity who helped me figure that mixture out. In 5 years from now when there is an entire new crop of racers you will be able to catch guys like Evo sitting in a group telling them about how hard he worked to bring all the pinewood derby tricks to them and Murph will be giving them the scientific theory about how he confangled the molecular hoobagoobas and brought the world the secrets to oil.

I have learned being in the pinewood derby business that you can't trust a secret with anyone and that no product is safe from being duplicated. Everyone takes credit and that is just how it is. There will NEVER be another breakthrough that will match the Block or the Oil Process when it comes to speed gains. Sorry to say it but we are almost to the ceiling. The funny things is, if I had never showed a soul what I did with the oil there would not be a Spacewalker, Evolution, Murph... the list would go on. The funnier thing is that if the Jewkes had not of given us the Block then there would be no DerbyDad4Hire and the pinewood derby world would still be wasting their money on Derby Worx garbage. Cold hard truths. You racers need to understand exactly how lucky you are to be coming in now.

These are the facts as best as I can remember them now...
 
Thank you so much John for leaving my name off the Who's Who list, I appreciate it. I probably run a different oil than anybody, however, it's like you said, you can't tell a sole or in 2 days time..........100 PWD racers know what you told one person.
AddEmoticons08013
 
Some have earned respect, some need to be smacked.
bruce
You know me, I am not the chicken who hides in PM's or slinks behind peoples backs.
bsb racing said:
Thank you so much John for leaving my name off the Who's Who list, I appreciate it. I probably run a different oil than anybody, however, it's like you said, you can't tell a sole or in 2 days time..........100 PWD racers know what you told one person.
AddEmoticons08013
 
Also, if you don't want your name dropped then quit the garbage or I will drop kick it to the moon.
DerbyDad4Hire said:
Some have earned respect, some need to be smacked.
bruce
You know me, I am not the chicken who hides in PM's or slinks behind peoples backs.
bsb racing said:
Thank you so much John for leaving my name off the Who's Who list, I appreciate it. I probably run a different oil than anybody, however, it's like you said, you can't tell a sole or in 2 days time..........100 PWD racers know what you told one person.
AddEmoticons08013
 
Thanks for posting. It is great to know the evolution of the oil process. I appreciate yourself and everyone that helped. Between the Block and the Oil process the PWD World is a much faster pleace. Thank you for your generosity and hard work.

Carolina's Father was a Clock Craftsman. Carolina mentored me a on a lot of things. Of course the oil was always a secret. He did teach me to use SELVYT cloths which are very cool. I always thought his secret was watch oils but I was never sure. He even posted once about a watch oil used in antartic expeditions. Fun times and Carolina is an amazing racer.

In researching 234 I found some interesting things that led to his sucess. 234 was a nurse with very steady hands that drilled the rears canted by hand using the PBT and a popsicle stick underneath the car body to provide the cant. No one else could match his steady hand technique. The block took away this advantage. There was also mention of a dupont chain lube but it was not clear if it was his go to lube or not.

DerbyDad4Hire said:
Next Level Racing said:
Evolution and Spacewalker claim they came up with it and taught derbydad.
I have heard that one several times now too!
rofl


Lots of people have come up with great ideas for pinewood derby. You guys have it very lucky. I have raced since 2007 and a few people have freely given me help with no strings attached. JAC, Cam Car and ALine Performance. They did not tell me everything they knew but they were the first ones to help me. Information was very hard to come by and all you would ever get was bits and pieces. There have been two MAJOR discoveries in pinewood derby since I have been racing that have changed the course of league racing and made everyone competitive.

1st- The Block. Jewkes put out the tool that made building a fast car about as simple as it could be. Before the Block everyone was trying to bend their rear axles and it was a literal nightmare. The best racer at the time was Leo 234 Racing. He seemed to have mastered the rear canting first and he was using oil. The Block encountered MASSIVE resistance when it was introduced simply because it was me and the Jewkes marketing it. The Derby Worx clan pulled out all stops to bury us and failed miserably. Once I had the Block I shot to the top of the list. The thing is that the Block was not exclusive to me. A lot of racers got one or made their own version. I was successful because I built a shop from an empty warehouse and set up track and wore out a path alongside it testing and learning a lot of the things that the more experienced racers already knew but would never share. The Block gave every racer at least a .03 gain in speed which is unheard of.

2nd- THE Oil Process. Some people were using oil with success but until I made the switch the only racer that had surpassed me using oil was Carolina Gravity. Leo 234, Wheeler, and the rest of the original oil gang retired off as I was coming on but at the time they would not have been able to beat my graphite cars. Carolina Gravity pushed me into the oil research mode and we had what amounted to our own "arms race". I started working with it in the winter of 2009. I say I because I was alone when I started forming what is common today. Did I invent every step? NO! I listened and read what others said worked for other aspects of the polishing process. I used my common sense and put it all together. The trick is I spent more time than I could count testing and buying product after product to try. Breakthrough #1 came before the 2009 Lima Land Open. I found the Dupont multiuse spray. I was told 2 years before by railhugger that he used the Dupont silicone in some fashion to make his oil cars run fast but I never tried to figure it out. I learned if I sprayed the axles and the wheelbores and then added oil I picked up .01 over my graphite cars. THat was huge at the time. The trick was it had to be fresh and at best you got 50 runs before it died. I took 3 cars to Lima and ran in 6 classes with the 3 cars and took home 3 firsts and a 2nd and a 3rd I believe. (Something like that) In the classes the cars were supposed to be in it wasn't even close. My big axle cars almost beat the best needle cars. After Lima I went back to work testing. My brother came into the shop and started helping right before the Lima trip. THe next discovery was LEGEND. This is where the explosion came in and was the single most important discovery for oil. I am not sure of this but I think Carolina Gravity had this part figured out but did not have the spray for the axle. If we had been working together we would have had the answer a lot quicker. When I added the 2nd polish to the equation and quit spraying the wheel bore and just sprayed the axles the time drop was unbelievable. I remember when I found it was right before the King of the Hill race in 2009. InSuspense was at the shop when I first ran the car down the track and we both nearly fell over when the time popped up. We had to run it many times before we believed it. The foundation was then set. Me, my brother and InSuspense took to massive testing of all the sprays and polishes we could find to get the very best. The funny thing is that no combination was ever faster than the original Legend/Dupont combo that I did initially until my brother brought in a can of Jigaloo that his wife told him we needed to try. The Jig turned into the shop secret. It was about .005 faster than the blue can but it was devastating to the wheels if misapplied. It also lasted A LONG TIME! I used this to sweep the King of the Hill and we flat out dominated the racing for the next several months to the point of people literally whining and complaining of quitting. This is when I put on the oil workshop and what created the monster we have today. Racers like Evo and Spacewalker were not even near A class racers when it came to big axle cars. Spacewalker was a product of my shop when I was in NC. They both sat through the workshops just like the majority of the big name racers today that everyone holds in high regard. There have been several more like Murph that learned and then turned it against me touting the Derby Worx line. I should have thought of that before I showed ANYONE what I was doing. Hindsight is 20/20. During the workshops the one thing I did not teach people was Jigaloo and as a matter of fact I told people it was bad. In fact it WAS BAD if you did not use it right and I knew that you always keep one ace in the hole. I also knew I would be expected to replace all the wheels people ruined trying to use it if I recommended it. Unfortunately my brother had not learned that lesson yet and did not realize the few little snakes that are out there that quickly buddy up just to get info then leave you high and dry. SOme people were even mad at me like Spacewalker because I did not tell them EVERYTHING. LOL, I helped everyone get .03 faster and they were mad because I didn't get them the last.005. For those of you that did get mad at that you can [edited for content]. The shop secret got let out and now you have all the "experts." It is my understanding that even my secret to the oil mixture was given out to Spacewalker too. The credit for that secret goes to Donelson Gravity who helped me figure that mixture out. In 5 years from now when there is an entire new crop of racers you will be able to catch guys like Evo sitting in a group telling them about how hard he worked to bring all the pinewood derby tricks to them and Murph will be giving them the scientific theory about how he confangled the molecular hoobagoobas and brought the world the secrets to oil.

I have learned being in the pinewood derby business that you can't trust a secret with anyone and that no product is safe from being duplicated. Everyone takes credit and that is just how it is. There will NEVER be another breakthrough that will match the Block or the Oil Proces
s when it comes to speed gains. Sorry to say it but we are almost to the ceiling. The funny things is, if I had never showed a soul what I did with the oil there would not be a Spacewalker, Evolution, Murph... the list would go on. The funnier thing is that if the Jewkes had not of given us the Block then there would be no DerbyDad4Hire and the pinewood derby world would still be wasting their money on Derby Worx garbage. Cold hard truths. You racers need to understand exactly how lucky you are to be coming in now.

These are the facts as best as I can remember them now...
 
I appreciate this brief evolution of the pinewood derby world and all that have positively contributed. I hope for everyone's sake there is at the very least some head room left...kind of a sad state of affairs for those of us plagued with the desire to always improve and advance.
 
Very interesting read. thanks for sharing. Its always nice to know the back story on things.
 
John, thanks for sharing I know that none of us would be where we are today without your hard work and willingness to share what you have. THANK YOU!