Opinions on Rules for Cub Race

[zippo3359]

So, this is our second year racing and last year we did little to no speed prep other than some hobby graphite on the axles. We ended up with the CoM much to close to the rear (behind or right above the rear axles) and had a deadly shimmy in the front end due to the lack of weight. We were a full second or more behind some of the cars we raced.

Our Pack has some fairly strict rules compared to many that are posted on here. I was hoping I could post a few of them and get some feeling for interpretation of them. Any thoughts on these are greatly appreciated.

The ones that are causing me the most issues are:

Rule # 1 - Insert axles only into the grooves provided on the wood block of the car. Long wheelbase cars are not allowed. Applying wood putty in the grooves and using a drill press to make holes to insert the axles is prohibited.

Would you drill your own holes on the opposite side of the block and cut slots, drill above the slots and then sand down the bottom of the kit to get the required 3/8" ground clearance or use the existing slots and hope for the best?

I did buy a silver bullet and have tested on three blocks so far. When drilling into the slot, I tend to get to much play with a #44 bit. I was using a Dremel Workstation and not a drill press on the initial tests and I've corrected that mistake by getting a drill press for any further blocks that I drill.

Rule #2 - Only dry powder lubricants, such as graphite, may be used. Regular oils and silicone sprays are prohibited and may soften the plastic wheels.

Would you immediately discount using Pledge before applying the graphite due to this rule? Pledge has silicone in it, but would it be illegal to use that as the final polishing step and not as lubricant applied on race day.

Question #1 - Even if I don't do a rail runner type setup, would you ever consider NOT raising one of the front wheels? This is allowed by our rules and I believe the answer is raise it no matter what, but I figured that I'd ask. I'm using a silver bullet to drill holes and I believe I would do the rear wheels with camber and the DFW straight in this type of setup. Is that correct? I may decide to try a rail runner, but I wanted to get a car running well before I tried that.

We have other rules that explicitly prevent the use of any axles or wheels other than ones identical to the ones that come in the kit. I know that doesn't make for the fastest car, but I've read enough on here that I'm pretty comfortable with what I need to do there to keep well within the rules and still be competitive.

Thanks for any opinions or advice! The site has taught me a lot so far, I was just hoping to get some opinions on the use of the pre-existing slots before I chew through more kits.

 

[Vitamin K]

Ugh, forcing you to use the existing grooves is crappy. Those aren't even guaranteed to be straight! However, if you really want to abide by the rules, you might have to use them, without drilling them out in any way.

I mean, if you wanted to be technical, there are ways to make canted holes without using a drill press (e.g. Goat Boy's tool), and other things to fill slots with than wood putty (epoxy). I could see a fight brewing at check-in time, though.

- I know that bent axles aren't a popular choice round these parts (ducks head), but if you're forced to use slots, they might be a viable choice for achieving rear end cant and alignment.

- My feeling on the pledge is that it's kinda sneaky to use if the rules say no spray. Not detectable though, so it's your conscience.

- Always raise the front wheel. Kill more of your rotational energy.

 

[Crash Enburn]

Rule #1 It says to use the slots, use the slots. (Drilling and recreating the slots would be untraceable, really. Personally, I don't think I have the means to do it -- although I've heard tell of two hacksaw blades side-by-side). Cut the block 5/8" from the axle slot on the long end of the block. Glue the cut off portion to the other end of the block. Where you cut is now the rear of the car.

Rule #2 Pledge is a polish here, not a lubricant. Use DD4H Graphite or Hob-E-Lube. You're golden.

Question #1 If you are allowed to cant your wheels, then by all means, do so! And, whilst somewhat counter-intuitive, a rail runner is faster than trying to roll straight.

You can buy tubes of wheels at the scout shop. If you put together a tube with only mold #s 2, 3, 8, and/or 15, you'll be getting the consistently best molds. You can also buy mold-matched and trued scout wheels from DD4H that are completely legal.

 

[zippo3359]

We are able to drill out the pre-cut slots. Though that isn't stated in the rules, it is encouraged at the workshops the pack holds.

 

[ngyoung]

I would ignore that spray lubricant rule with regards to how Pledge has been recommended to be used. Go ahead and spray the axles with pledge, yes the wheel will get ruined if you don't let the axles dry and the aerosol propellant and solvent evaporate. That really only takes 20mins though.

If you drill above the slots be careful to drill into solid wood, not just the top of the slot or the bit will want to wander towards the path of least resistance into slot. Like you said saw up to it and if you need clearance sand the bottom. As you mentioned drilling on the opposite side and making all new slots will work best if you're OK with "bending" that rule.

There really isn't any reason not to make it a rail runner. Even if you just get it to steer slightly off center it is probably better off then trying to get it to roll perfectly straight where it is pretty much guaranteed to bounce back and forth against the rail.

You don't have to drill your raised wheel hole higher, just the difference of the positive cant on your DFW plus adding negative cant to the raise wheel will work fine. *Front of car DFW side--> ---

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

I'd flip the block over and drill new axel holes. I then would use my band saw to cut new slots to the drilled holes.

 

[zippo3359]

You don't have to drill your raised wheel hole higher, just the difference of the positive cant on your DFW plus adding negative cant to the raise wheel will work fine. *Front of car DFW side--> ---

So, if I do a rail runner (I'd lift the non-dominant wheel as that is allowed by our rules) and I use a silver bullet to drill out the axle holes, would I use the slot closest to the top where the block goes in for the rear wheels and the slot at the bottom (opposite the place where the block goes) for the DFW? I'm a little confused by the positive and negative camber references. Is positive camber when the top of the wheel is farther away from the body or vice versa? I plan to just use the guide pin that came with the block for the camber on each of the wheels unless I should use another size (I also have the axle bending tool if I should drill the DFW straight and bend the axle).

When you guys do a rail runner, do you typically cut the adjustment slot in the DFW axle to make adjustment easier?

Sorry to ask basic questions as I'm sure they are answered in other threads. Just trying to get some quick clarifications before I start more prototypes. Thanks for the advice so far. Your posts have reinforced my decision on the direction I plan to go with the slots and the pledge.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I drill, and then "connect the dots" with a fat Sawzall blade by hand. Once the slot is cut, I use a small file that's about as thick as the stock slots to finish them. You absolutely cannot tell the difference...especially once the axles are installed in them.

Definitely use the Pledge. No way to tell, and it's not a "day of" lube, anyway.

Get the DD4H graphite, and some Red Rocket for your wheel bores.

We used everything I listed here, plus some Dynasty Rages, and the Revell BSA axles...made it a 4 wheel rail runner and won Pack and District last year. Passed tech with flying colors. "Strict" rules aren't as strict as the rule makers "think" they are, because usually they don't know what they're looking for in the first place.

 

[ngyoung]

Here is how your wheels will look. Your DFW can be on either side. Its a personal preference. Positive cant is when the top is tilted away from the body, negative towards.

Most everyone marks their rear holes at 5/8" from the end of the block. Then measure and mark your front to be the same distance the original slots are from each other. Using the provided pin is what the majority use.

When all done the rears will look like this:
/---- both are negative cant.

The front if you drill both holes the same height and bend both axles should look like this:
DFW positive cant ----

 

[Crash Enburn]

So, if I do a rail runner (I'd lift the non-dominant wheel as that is allowed by our rules) and I use a silver bullet to drill out the axle holes, would I use the slot closest to the top where the block goes in for the rear wheels and the slot at the bottom (opposite the place where the block goes) for the DFW?

It took me a minute to get your meaning. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif Typically, you would insert the pin in the upper slot to add the cant to your rear wheels. With the DFW axle being bent, the hole for it is drilled straight — so no cant added through a pin in the lower slot on your Bullet/Block.

 

[NGEME9000]

This is my first post so forgive me if this question has been answered before in a separate post. We are pretty new to PWD racing but we have learned a lot from this site and are thankful for all of the insight. Here’s my question. How would you all interprete the rule underlined in red for our upcoming Scout PWD race? Does this particular rule imply that a 3 wheel canted rail runner does not meet the rules because it will not have 1/4” of the wheel touching the track? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Crash Enburn]

It does look like the rules are trying to say that the wheels must run flat on the track (although it would've been much plainer to simply say that). From what I can see, you can still run a three-wheeled car.

There is enough slop in the wheel bores that you can drill the axles in at a small angle (think 1°) and still have them running flat on the track.

 

[derbydentist]

This is my first post so forgive me if this question has been answered before in a separate post. We are pretty new to PWD racing but we have learned a lot from this site and are thankful for all of the insight. Here’s my question. How would you all interprete the rule underlined in red for our upcoming Scout PWD race? Does this particular rule imply that a 3 wheel canted rail runner does not meet the rules because it will not have 1/4” of the wheel touching the track? Thanks in advance for your help.

When I read these rules they are not saying the wheel can not ride on the edge - it simply is saying the wheel surface needs to be flat - meaning no v shape in the middle of the wheel. It also says that the wheel tread width needs to be 1/4" wide. It says nothing about the amount of the wheel that needs to contact the track surface. I would cant my wheels and raise one. If they wanted it to mean that all 4 wheels must touch the track and that 1/4" of the wheel tread must touch the track they should have said what I just said.

 

[Crash Enburn]

I beg to differ. "...the surface that touches the track..." A canted wheel is riding on a 90° edge — neither the tread surface nor the inside face.

Your best bet, NGEME9000 is to contact the race official and get his response in writing. You can then use that to support your case for why your car is legal, or why another car is not.

 

[Vitamin K]

I would definitely advocate contacting the race organizer.

That said, my reading of the spirit of the rules is closer to DerbyDentists'...that is, they are using the language to refer to a particular part of the wheel, and not so much dictating how the wheel needs to ride. In other words, no conical cuts on wheel treads.

There's a lot of assumption there, so yeah, definitely talk to the folks in charge.

 

[TRE]

yes that doesnt say anything about canting..i would cant them

 

[NGEME9000]

Thanks for all of the feedback. Much appreciated.

 

[TWarwick07]

This is my first post so forgive me if this question has been answered before in a separate post. We are pretty new to PWD racing but we have learned a lot from this site and are thankful for all of the insight. Here’s my question. How would you all interprete the rule underlined in red for our upcoming Scout PWD race? Does this particular rule imply that a 3 wheel canted rail runner does not meet the rules because it will not have 1/4” of the wheel touching the track? Thanks in advance for your help.

I think this is referring to cutting grooves or notches in the wheels, my nephews council provides a thorough diagram of what they refer too let me see if i can find it.......

Here it is :

 

[NGEME9000]

I think this is referring to cutting grooves or notches in the wheels, my nephews council provides a thorough diagram of what they refer too let me see if i can find it.......

Here it is :

Thanks for the info!