Outlaw race

They are using mine. I do not have a set of rules yet. They are supposed to post them on the facebook page.

The rules I did see early on where pretty generic. When I talked to one of the guys running it, he said they were allowing mods to the wheels. The cheetahs and BASX will be fine. I don't believe the MA wheels will be allowed. Axles can be grooved, fenders allowed. 4 wheels on car but only 3 have to touch. Not sure about if they will allow 3 wheels on same side of car. Any wheelbase accepted, do not have to use slots. 7" long.

I will try again to get them posted. Hope you guys can make it. Not sure what kind of turnout they will have.
 
HMH Racing said:
They are using mine. I do not have a set of rules yet. They are supposed to post them on the facebook page.

The rules I did see early on where pretty generic. When I talked to one of the guys running it, he said they were allowing mods to the wheels. The cheetahs and BASX will be fine. I don't believe the MA wheels will be allowed. Axles can be grooved, fenders allowed. 4 wheels on car but only 3 have to touch. Not sure about if they will allow 3 wheels on same side of car. Any wheelbase accepted, do not have to use slots. 7" long.

I will try again to get them posted. Hope you guys can make it. Not sure what kind of turnout they will have.

Sounding better every day. Any word yet on lube type?
 
Any word on cub car rules yet?

I'll be taking a car or two for the outlaw race, if any of you guys want me to take yours along just pm me for my shipping address. Pack them well and include return postage if you want your cars back.
 
5KidsRacing said:
Looks like a well built needle/razor car wins that race..... They must have not got the memo that nobody wants to race needles any more.... yeah for them!

Scott, in your estimation, how much difference in speed would there be between a needle car an an Eliminator style car?
 
Corvid said:
Location, location, location...

Corvid - I have something in the works for the North West. I will keep you posted. Maybe we can tag team this event.

Bulldog - You can also help out. Thinking a Portland National race.

Thoughts?
 
bracketracer said:
5KidsRacing said:
Looks like a well built needle/razor car wins that race..... They must have not got the memo that nobody wants to race needles any more.... yeah for them!
Scott, in your estimation, how much difference in speed would there be between a needle car an an Eliminator style car?

Sorry this took so long, my site was down yesterday so I couldn't download the picture..

This is my needle car against unlimited cars at the NPWDRL in 2013... Math to get to the split for Eliminators/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

needle.JPG
 
Wow, so a Pro-built needle car was within a few thousandths of the top bearing cars back then? I went to the NPWDRL site and looked at the Eliminator times at the same event to gauge the time gap, the top Elims were 2.900's so that would give the needles about a .014 advantage over the big axles IF the guy building the needle car is good. I wonder how much Elim tech has improved since then? Looks like the current gap between Unl and Elim based on the track records posted to the left is about .015 right now and if the needles would still be a touch slower than a bearing car that would give a good needle car builder about a .010-.011 advantage these days over the big axles. How's my math look? /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
 
bracketracer said:
Wow, so a Pro-built needle car was within a few thousandths of the top bearing cars back then? I went to the NPWDRL site and looked at the Eliminator times at the same event to gauge the time gap, the top Elims were 2.900's so that would give the needles about a .014 advantage over the big axles IF the guy building the needle car is good. I wonder how much Elim tech has improved since then? Looks like the current gap between Unl and Elim based on the track records posted to the left is about .015 right now and if the needles would still be a touch slower than a bearing car that would give a good needle car builder about a .010-.011 advantage these days over the big axles. How's my math look? /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

Looks good to me/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
 
I think you have to be a lot better than "good" to post times like 5Kids did with needles. I remember that car running, it was awesome. Haven't seen it before or since though.

Some other practicalities have to enter the equation: do you have the parts ?; when else would you use them ?; what's it going to cost to get what you need ? ...
 
quadad said:
I think you have to be a lot better than "good" to post times like 5Kids did with needles. I remember that car running, it was awesome. Haven't seen it before or since though.

Some other practicalities have to enter the equation: do you have the parts ?; when else would you use them ?; what's it going to cost to get what you need ? ...

I have no plans to build a needle car, I was more concerned about driving an hour to go to a race with a big axle car if someone could show up with a needle car and beat it easily. But since I'm pretty sure Scott's not going to make the drive to this race, it looks like a level playing field to me since I doubt there will be anyone at that race with his skills! But you never know!
 
I was sent a copy of the rules for the Scout class tonight. Looks pretty much like BASX rules (but no oil allowed):

Pinckneyville Pinewood Derby BSA Rules

BSA Class

Car Body (the wooden/material structure that holds the weight, axles and other add ons) / Total Car Dimensions

Wheel Base: Any as long as wheels do not exceed the 7″ total length requirement Total Car Height: Not to exceed 5″ inches… Total Car Length: Not to exceed 7″ inches… Total Car BODY Width: Not to exceed 1-3/4″ inches… Total Car Weight: Not to exceed 5.0 ounces (+.04) or 143 grams even measured on 1/10th digital scale.

Additional materials may be added as long as they meet the rules

Wood must be used to construct your own body and/or frame

4 Axles & Wheels must be installed to the side of the car body directly across from one another / No more than a 10 degree angle. 4 wheels must be installed but only 3 have to touch the track.

Axles

A. Minimum diameter .084

B. Axles must have a nail head

C. No one piece axles

Wheels

BSA wheels only

A.The tread / contact surface must remain flat and parallel to the bore as humanly possible B. No Angling, Reshaping, Canting, Round Crowning, Tapering, H-ing, V-ing, Dishing, the outside of the wheels and/or tread surface. C. All markings must remain visible on the inside and outside of the wheel including tread bumps. D. NO Wheel covers may be used. E. 8.00mm Minimum Tread Width. F. Wheels must weigh at least 2.4 grams and a wheel can be removed after the race to be weighed to confirm weight. G. The wheels can be trued to get to the 2.4 gram weight but they are not to be cut down intentionally under the weight limit and use foreign material to bring it back to weight.

Wheels may be removed and weighed after the race to verify they are legal.

LUBRICATION

Only dry powdered graphite is allowed, no type of liquid lubricants.

Once the car has passed inspection, it may NOT be retrieved for lubrication.

REPAIRS

If a car malfunctions during a race, the race will NOT be restarted unless the car interferes with another vehicle or fails to pass the finish line and register a time in its lane.

If the car crosses the finish line in its lane, the results will stand and race officials will determine if the participant is allowed to make a repair before the vehicle's next race. After the car has passed inspection, any approved repairs must be made under a race official's supervision and within a five-minute time limit. Upon completion of the repair, car weight will be checked again for compliance.

The following Modifications are not allowed

A.Starting or finish line devices B. Electronic or lighting devices C. Glass or extremely fragile parts. D. Paint that is wet, smudges or extremely sticky. E. Bearings and/or Bushings. F. Sharp objects, sandpaper or abrasives on the bottom of car (We do not want any damage to the rubber stopping pads). G. Axles and/or wheels attached to any device that mechanically or alter rotation and spin. H. Any part of the car to go beyond the starting peg. I. NO Propellants.

Weight-ins June 6, 2015 at 9:00am. Race at 10:00am.
 
That is correct. I sent them the BASX rules and explained why these rules were better than the generic scout rules they were going to use. It took 2 weeks but they had some people drop out on them, so I told them I would send them some rules. They wanted to run graphite only this year but may be open to oil next year. I am bringing a couple of league cars including unlimited just to show them and to explain a few things. This is their first year so hopefully it won't be too much of a cluster.
 
Kinser Racing said:
looks like they took the BASX rules, just add fenders and use dry lube.

Are you sure about the fenders? The rules read "Total BODY width- not to exceed 1 3/4 inches" same as BASX. The Outlaw class states that the car can be 2 3/4 inches wide so no concern there. Is a fender considered an "add on"?
 
Bracket,
Those are the NPWDRL BASX rules I took out the NO FENDER clause. I assure you that you can run fenders. I told chuck that I would be running fenders and that several others would be also.

Also have to run graphite.
 
HMH Racing said:
Bracket,
Those are the NPWDRL BASX rules I took out the NO FENDER clause. I assure you that you can run fenders. I told chuck that I would be running fenders and that several others would be also.

Thanks!
 
Can't wait to meet some fellow racers. From talking to Chuck, they may be a little "green" on PWD racing. Don't be surprised if a couple of them want to pick your brain on your set-up /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif