Outlaw wheels question

[DuckOfAllTrades]

I’m working on a car with outlaw, minimally thin wheels. Do you still cant the axles? And do I still set it up as a rail rider? If so, what degree cant is best for outlaw wheels and should I set the drift different? They came with Teflon washers, guess they aren’t needed if I cant them, which confused me. Why include washers if they are running on bent axles?

Thanks in advance!

 

[bracketracer]

You still need to run washers even with canted axles. The wheels move around more than some people think and you want a hard & slick surface if they do migrate into the body on a run.

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

Being the newb with zero outlaw experience I just wanted to mention one thing... so I can’t comment or give and insight on the outlaw set up but I noticed your comment about running on “bent” axles. From what I learned over the last couple years doing our kids Awana GP cars from info here and then racing over at APR with some very fast and helpful gurus if you are talking about the rear axles you should get your cant (3*) from your drill only and run straight axles. It’s not a great idea to bend your rears. They will be susceptible to movement throwing off your alignment. The DFW is a different story of course as you need to be able to tune it for best steer. But only bend the rears if you end up with a not so good drill and have to compensate. My drills a couple years ago were toe’d pretty bad so I had to bend and tune the axles to get them to back straight.
Again... as for the outlaw set up and wheels... yeah... I got nothin’.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Thanks! So is it best I cant and railride? I don’t have faith in these wheels by the way, one snapped in my hand. Thankfully they sent an extra. Curious to see how they do.

I’m running them with Krytox. I’m prepping the axles with Teflon. Does anyone know what would pair well to wax the wheel bores with? This is my first time using oil.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Being the newb with zero outlaw experience I just wanted to mention one thing... so I can’t comment or give and insight on the outlaw set up but I noticed your comment about running on “bent” axles. From what I learned over the last couple years doing our kids Awana GP cars from info here and then racing over at APR with some very fast and helpful gurus if you are talking about the rear axles you should get your cant (3*) from your drill only and run straight axles. It’s not a great idea to bend your rears. They will be susceptible to movement throwing off your alignment. The DFW is a different story of course as you need to be able to tune it for best steer. But only bend the rears if you end up with a not so good drill and have to compensate. My drills a couple years ago were toe’d pretty bad so I had to bend and tune the axles to get them to back straight.
Again... as for the outlaw set up and wheels... yeah... I got nothin’.

Thanks! That’s great to know! Makes sense. I can’t drill new holes, don’t have the setup. They are cheap wheels so not investing in a body pre drilled. I may just run them straight. I have 0 faith in them.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Are there alternatives to Teflon or Jig a loo to coat the axles in for Krytox? Not sure what I can get, so hoping I can use something I have in the shop or kitchen.

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

Only alternative I know of is chainsaw oil...

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Chainsaw oil? I have that! Do you mean coat the axle in chainsaw oil before, letting it dry, then wipe it off apply the Krytox?

I wonder if Armor All would work. It does have silicone in it.

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

So I have never used anything but Jig. And it’s application is once axle is sanded and polished, then cleaned and dried and free of any, ANY lint you then just give it a light and even coat of Jig. I have axles in a piece of balsa, spray one side then flip over and spray the other. Then through eye loupe look closely for lint or thick spot of Jig. Don’t want any of that. If I gooped it on to heavy I wipe it off and do it again till I have nice even layer with no thick spots.
So I tell you my process with Jig only to say if the chainsaw lube is of the same consistency and similar active ingredients then the application should be the same.
I have never used it nor have I heard how it’s applied. Sorry I can’t help more and hopefully a guru can chime in.
Jimmy

 

[King Racing]

I think Jimmy means Dupont chainsaver chain lube. I have not heard of chainsaw oil being fast.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Thanks for the clarification, think you are right.

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

That was exactly what I meant and had a brain fart... my bad not clarifying.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Well, built this car last night and had uneven results. For reference, here are the wheels I'm working with:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pinewood-d...h=item3d7efd56d9:g:9rEAAOSwBJNbY8HQ:rk:3:pf:0

I didn't expect much, but was curious how a 3D Printed wheel might do. Wanted to make an experiment out of it. I guessed not so well. I don't believe I was far off.

My problems started as I was polishing the bores, and carefully I might ad. One snapped in two in my hand! Actually, more like crumbled. Thankfully, he had included an extra wheel, probably for this reason. My guess is when they are 3D printed, there not as sturdy as when they are molded. They are grainy and not uniform. The inner bores were pretty rough, 3D printing leaves a weird surface all over. But with some patience, I got them shined up suitably.

I installed body washers and chose to go with Kyrtox as my lubricant. I then put the car together as a straight run 4 on the floor. It wobbled horribly, jerked from side to side to side to side, sometimes cut hard left, sometimes right. I decreased the gaps between the washer/body and the wheel, and this helped a little, but it was still unstable and erratic.

I decided to try to set it up as a rail rider. I canted the back axles and bent the front axles at 2 degrees to control the steer, also lifted the front left wheel. I used tighter body gaps than I usually do. This did the trick. The back wheels didn't bounce back and forth, stayed towards the outside of the axle head. It was still a little erratic, but much better. I was able to get 4" drift over 4 feet consistently.

This was a fun build and meant to be an experiment, so can't complain on the results. Also, I might add, this is the first time I've used outlaw wheels, so I'm probably doing it horribly wrong. I'm curious to see how it does on a track! It's still not as stable as I would like it to be though. Watch it be the fastest car I made this year, proving me wrong. I learned a lot, that's all that matters. Especially on getting it tuned correctly. I'm concerned when it hits the stops or the first time it is dropped, the wheels will shatter.

Has anyone else tried these wheels or have any suggestions about how to improve stability?

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

I should add. I'm NOT disappointed in these wheels for the price! I mean no disrespect to the person that made them, respect them very much as it's not an easy thing to do! I would buy them again. So I don't want to come off as insulting or mean. I would have my doubts about a 50 dollar set of wheels if they were outlaw, simply because they intimidate me and I don't see how in the world they could work. That's part of what I set out to understand with this project.

So much respect to there maker.