Pack Winner! Thanks to everyone!

[derbydentist]

Well we had our pack race today and it was nerve racking for me but we came out on top. We had a lot of kids show up and I saw a few cars with some skills and some things that were indicative of learning on here or other higher level information sites.

Check in was a breeze and they barely checked anything on the rules which were basically follow rules in the box. This scared me cuz I could see them letting all kinds of illegal things through. I was told it was an aluminum track and so I figured I was safe from a crappy plastic track with no center lane. It was an aluminum track but different than what I expected - the start gate seemed low and the joints between track sections were not as tight as they should be and I was worried about the stop section as it was angled up quite a bit with a pillow at the end.

So his first race I was expecting a big win given the experiences my brothers had shared with me about their races at pack level and being 2 car lengths ahead of everyone. And their cars were putting up slower times on our family track than I had recorded For mine. So the first race started and my sons car was about 4th at the bottom of the ramp and I was scared and it sped ahead at the end and won by about a car length. That was way to close for comfort- I worried about how the rest of the races would go since that one was so close- little did I know that the top 4 cars were in that heat.

His slowest time was that first race as well at 2.870 the next 5 races were less stressful he did 2.850, 2.840, 2.841,2.850, 2.850. Avg time about .032 faster than second place car. The first race his car fell off the track On the stopper section and I didn't get A chance to look at it.

After the last race I looked at the car and the front fender was broken on the top and the tape that I put on the front ndfw to close off from air was pushed in and that same wheel was pulled out about half way! Not sure at what point all this damage happened but guess it didn't matter.

As we were going into the awards ceremony room the head of the race said is your car made of wood? I said yes-- he said did you extend your wheelbase? I said yes - he said that is not allowed and we have to eliminate your car and 4 other cars that did that. I said not under the rules I received- read the rules from the box- so he took off to find the rules and I didn't hear from him again until they were announcing the winners- so I had no idea what was going to happen but thankfully they announced his name as first place!

Got a little scared there-it was fun and my son kept saying I can't believe I won! Thanks to everyone for the advice and help - you guys are the best!

 

[jspearm1983]

Congratulations. That's a great looking car!

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

CONGRATZ!!! What a roller coaster ride of emotions that was! Great job and the car is a beauty!!

 

[derbydentist]

Thanks guys! I'm trying to learn from this first race experience- anyone have a better way to close off the inner area of the front raised wheel besides packing tape? Maybe I just need to tape it better or maybe one of the kids poked it wondering what it was. Also the car that came in 2nd was starting way faster than my car and was about 3/4 a car length ahead of me at the start - is this just due to super light wheels? Or could it have to do with the start gate? I noticed his car was pointed upward in the front instead of downward and the start device was slower(slower than the starting devices I normally see on a best track) as the pin dropped forward- maybe he knew from the many years that the stake was racing on this same track that it was a slow dropping pin. Just trying to improve for next year ... Any ideas?

 

[derbydentist]

Sorry one more comment- what a lame looking trophy he got- I know that's not what it's all about but man! I didn't tell my son that -he is as happy as can be and that's all that matters but really? They put two pieces of wood together(unsanded by the way) and painted it black and then put a painted hot wheels car glued to the top and a piece of paper taped to the from that says 1st place. They didn't even split up the winners into top three wolves and top three bears etc.. And then top three overall winners- it was just three pathetic trophies for the whole thing. Haha sorry I had to get that out there and off my chest-

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

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Well we had our pack race today and it was nerve racking for me but we came out on top. We had a lot of kids show up and I saw a few cars with some skills and some things that were indicative of learning on here or other higher level information sites. Check in was a breeze and they barely checked anything on the rules which were basically follow rules in the box. This scared me cuz I could see them letting all kinds of illegal things through. I was told it was an aluminum track and so I figured I was safe from a crappy plastic track with no center lane. It was an aluminum track but different than what I expected - the start gate seemed low and the joints between track sections were not as tight as they should be and I was worried about the stop section as it was angled up quite a bit with a pillow at the end. So his first race I was expecting a big win given the experiences my brothers had shared with me about their races at pack level and being 2 car lengths ahead of everyone. And their cars were putting up slower times on our family track than I had recorded For mine. So the first race started and my sons car was about 4th at the bottom of the ramp and I was scared and it sped ahead at the end and won by about a car length. That was way to close for comfort- I worried about how the rest of the races would go since that one was so close- little did I know that the top 4 cars were in that heat. His slowest time was that first race as well at 2.870 the next 5 races were less stressful he did 2.850, 2.840, 2.841,2.850, 2.850. Avg time about .032 faster than second place car. The first race his car fell off the track On the stopper section and I didn't get A chance to look at it. After the last race I looked at the car and the front fender was broken on the top and the tape that I put on the front ndfw to close off from air was pushed in and that same wheel was pulled out about half way! Not sure at what point all this damage happened but guess it didn't matter. As we were going into the awards ceremony room the head of the race said is your car made of wood? I said yes-- he said did you extend your wheelbase? I said yes - he said that is not allowed and we have to eliminate your car and 4 other cars that did that. I said not under the rules I received- read the rules from the box- so he took off to find the rules and I didn't hear from him again until they were announcing the winners- so I had no idea what was going to happen but thankfully they announced his name as first place! Got a little scared there-it was fun and my son kept saying I can't believe I won! Thanks to everyone for the advice and help - you guys are the best!

Congratulations to the both of you! He looks really happy!!!

I joined here about the same time as you and have watched as your build progressed. I have been impressed with your thought process and your questions. In my humble (less than rookie) opinion, you have taken a great approach to learning this.

A car quicker out of the gate and at the bottom of the hill? You did say they didn't check much at registration and that "stuff" was being let thru ...my guess( and only a guess) is lighter wheels, heavier, or maybe a slightly larger wheel gap??? I believe the slightly larger wheel gap may be quicker out the gate, but looses out on the other end. I think that is why the pro's here play with the gap on each car to determine what that particular car likes.

Anyway - Congratulations again! there is nothing quite like the excitement of a young person and the joy we feel when we get to witness that excitement!

 

[derbydentist]

Th

Congratulations to the both of you! He looks really happy!!!

I joined here about the same time as you and have watched as your build progressed. I have been impressed with your thought process and your questions. In my humble (less than rookie) opinion, you have taken a great approach to learning this.

A car quicker out of the gate and at the bottom of the hill? You did say they didn't check much at registration and that "stuff" was being let thru ...my guess( and only a guess) is lighter wheels, heavier, or maybe a slightly larger wheel gap??? I believe the slightly larger wheel gap may be quicker out the gate, but looses out on the other end. I think that is why the pro's here play with the gap on each car to determine what that particular car likes.

Anyway - Congratulations again! there is nothing quite like the excitement of a young person and the joy we feel when we get to witness that excitement!

Thanks for your comments! I really appreciate that!

Now that you mention the wheel gaps he had about 10 degree angles on his rear wheels and his wheel gaps were huge! Not sure what the reasoning was behind this maybe he had to do that in order to keep the top of the wheels from hitting the body of the car because of the large angle. I think you may have something there!

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

Congratulations to the both of you! He looks really happy!!!
Congratulations again! there is nothing quite like the excitement of a young person and the joy we feel when we get to witness that excitement!

Ditto that comment!!! Great job. Happy kids winning races and loving the trophies regardless of what they look like... yeah that is the best part!

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

One more thought to add ... was the other car always quicker at the bottom of the hill? Maybe your car was staged tight against the rail?
Ok, so maybe two thoughts ... your point about a slow dropping pin might also be valid, it depends on how slow the pin actually dropped and how high the other car's nose was.

 

[speed bump]

My guess is lighter wheels is the reason he got 3/4 of a car length off the starting gate. A long time ago we ran on a wooden track that a guy would roll the starting gate with his hand. A guy would cut out the front of his car in a u shape and then would put a piece of wire if the front of the car. He would bend the wire up so that it would touch the top of the starting gate. Once the gate was moved a 1/2 inch the car would start ahead of the other cars and you could not catch him! Now that is all gone away since the starting gates are spring loaded or has a electronic starting gate. I did not get to see what the rules say about wheels if you can run lighter wheels do so.. Our scout rules just say can not narrow the wheel and lettering must b on the outside of the wheels. So we ran a 1gram wheel and left the outside of the wheel alone. If you don't mind me asking what weight wheels did you run and what did you do to them?

 

[Crash Enburn]

Generally speaking, if a car accelerates quicker going down the hill, it's running lighter wheels that are able to spin up more quickly, letting the car accelerate faster than others.

As mentioned, the upturned nose, or U-shape with wire, is a quick-start notch from the "Pinewood Derby Speed Secrets" book. With a hand-turned gate, the pins move more slowly, so there is a lot of distance to be gained at the start compared to a car that contacts the pin down low. And yes, modern, spring-loaded (or gravity fed) gates negate any benefit to that "quick start notch"

The fact that he was the second place car says that your alignment and wheel prep was better. Go with that.

 

[recraig]

Love the smiles! Congratulations!

 

[xanthrum]

That looks like a car that should be racing at this year's Mid America Pinewood Derby - www.midamericaderby.com - Congrats on the win.

 

[TWarwick07]

glad BB8 won the race !!

I would have never known that was a golden hot wheels car if you didnt tell

 

[LightninBoy]

Congrats on the pack win!

I think the trophy is kinda charming. But then, we've had our fill of the mass market trophies.

 

[derbydentist]

One more thought to add ... was the other car always quicker at the bottom of the hill? Maybe your car was staged tight against the rail?
Ok, so maybe two thoughts ... your point about a slow dropping pin might also be valid, it depends on how slow the pin actually dropped and how high the other car's nose was.

So the other car was only faster at the start - my sons car sped up from there and caught him halfway down the track and passed his. The front of his car wasn't very high in fact I had to look closer to realize that the front end went up instead of down. I just thought if I could start as fast as his then I would really be bookin but I'm sure there are trade offs. My wheels were 1.7 g cheetahs from dd4h. He may have gone lighter than mine. I've never asked advice about staging and I'm sure there are a lot of "it depends" type of answers but what is the best in general way to stage. They had my son put the car on he track himself and they just looked to make sure it was on the rail correctly and didn't straiten them out at all. When I was testing the car I found it hard to not have the front Dominant wheel close to touching the rail from the start. Is it desirable to delay the dominant wheel riding the rail until further down the ramp section or is it best to have it touching the rail from the get go. Seems like it would not be good to start on the rail.

Thanks to everyone for your kind words and help and advice

 

[derbydentist]

Any advice on the tape over the raised wheel or a better way do that without making it look bad or using washers or windshields

 

[LightninBoy]

Regarding staging - it depends. ;-) But generally, center the real wheels over the rail and keep some daylight between the DFW and the rail.

Regarding tape over raised wheel - I just use packing tape. If your rules allow, I sand the hub and tread edge flat and even, this gives more surface area for the tape to contact.

 

[derbydentist]

Regarding staging - it depends. ;-) But generally, center the real wheels over the rail and keep some daylight between the DFW and the rail.

Regarding tape over raised wheel - I just use packing tape. If your rules allow, I sand the hub and tread edge flat and even, this gives more surface area for the tape to contact.

Thanks for the staging tip I guess you don't see much about that topic on here. As for the packing tape thank you for the advice about making it flat at those spots I like that. I think that may have been part of my problem - my raised wheel was just a stock wheel that I turned down on my lathe as thin as possible in the area where the tape sticks to the wheel and there wasn't enough surface to keep it there. Do you glue the axle in? I've been kickin around the idea of carpet tape against the body of the car and then just pushing it against that. Do you put the packing tape on the wheel and then push the axle through to make a hole?

 

[speed bump]

I used packing tape over ndfw and then u came use black magic marker to color it black. Most people will never pay it no mind at all. Don't glue axel just push it in where the wheel don't move.