Postmortem Cheating Discussion
- Thread starter CTDerbyDad
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This is my sons 3rd year in scouts. This year I will be running the PWD for our pack and have full control over which rules to apply (I plan on keeping with Districts to keep it easy) But last year the person who was in charge wanted to implement the "no pre-cut" cars rule to our pack races. I explained to him that although it sounds like a good rule, I would not implement it. Here are the reasons I gave him that I seen....
Not every kid has two parents. Whether there is a separation within the family, one parent wants no part of anything or worst yet, may no longer be alive. There are alot of single parents and statistically, the child lives with mom. Moms do not generally have alot of wood working tools to help the scout make a car. ( we have had some attempt it and have done a good job) but i am just generalizing it.
These single parent families may not have anyone to help them with this project.
On the other hand, there are Dads in the pack that are involved but have never touched a screw driver, let alone a power tool or own one.
Allowing pre-cut cars, gives those scouts a fighting chance and does not eliminate them from participation in the race and gives them some sort of accomplishment.
Just some food for though as you refine your rules
How can you for certain say that a kid had a car built when they come through tech in? It is purely a judgement call. Why not simply learn how to build a better car or simply enjoy the fun of your build and the race itself.
Would a kid be cheating if he was my neighbor and I helped him build a car?
Would a kid be cheating if he was my neighbor and I helped him build a car?
Here is an argument... on your pack build days, who cuts the cars? Most of the places around here have band saws, sanders and drills to cut, shape and drill bodies for cubs... what is the difference?
The first cub scout that I helped... I met when he went to Lowe's Dremel Days... When I was talking to his dad, he goes... I have two tools... a lawnmower and a snowblower... I looked at him and said... those don't make good looking cars... LOL
Our pack hands out PWD kits to the scouts at our December Christmas meeting. We hold the PWD race the second weekend of March, giving everyone enough time. We also get in contact with our local Lowes and Home Depot for their Dremel days etc. Unfortunately, we still get complaints.
We have 58 scouts in our pack. On race day last year, we only had roughly 30 or less show up. I guess that I just feel bad seeing all the scouts talking about race day (who won, who had cool paint etc.) and then see the look on the ones that didn't participate.
Although Mojo, you did give me a good idea. We have over a month until the race. I will get with some of the other leaders and see if we can't hold our own build day. Carpool kids there if we need to.
It will help a LOT.... some of the parents don't have the kinds of abilities that we do when it comes to tools... they need all the help they can get !
If only there were some other way for adults and scouts who have aged out to still get their PWD fix. Like a group of like minded adults who gather once a month to race PWD cars and push the speed envelope? That would be nice, wouldn't it? Anybody around here know of such an organization that could help Dave out?
We have thought of that. As a big pack, we have all sorts of family dynamics. The main reason to eliminate pre-cut cars was because we offer over a dozen awards based on creativity. As far as the single parent scenario, we don't do a build day or work shop, but we do get help to those who need it. Besides working with my two kids, I cut cars for five other youths.
The vast majority of the time you, of course, have no idea. And, we would never accuse anyone. You just never know . . . 99.9% of the time. Last year, we had a car show up that was milled car sold via a vendor (Derby Dust in this case). It took about a minute to find it online and on the vendor's site. It was discovered after the race, and the car, thankfully, didn't finish in the top three overall. We let it go and nothing was said to the Scout. That was last year. This year, we just made it clear, as diplomatically as humanly possible, to everyone that the car is to be built, not bought. Not everyone may like that rule or concept, but that's how we run our Cub Scout Pinewood Derby.
Nope. Nothing in the rules against that.
I've been trying to get down for the last week to see how he can help with our church event. Not sure I could get free for races. Unless, I drop my cars off at your door while I take my kids to visit grandma and grandpa. Life is getting in the way of pinewood derby and I'm not sure I approve. Besides, hard to go from 1st in scout racing to last in big boy racing.If only there were some other way for adults and scouts who have aged out to still get their PWD fix. Like a group of like minded adults who gather once a month to race PWD cars and push the speed envelope? That would be nice, wouldn't it? Anybody around here know of such an organization that could help Dave out?
I would have to agree the other guys that if the car makes it through inspection then the responsibility falls on the pack.
I have been teaching a class to our pack for three years last year all top 6 winners we're from my class. We had one week between the pack race and districts so I held a additional class help tune the cars. All six of our pack placed in the top 10 in District. We took first, third, 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th. The funny thing was those six boys this was they're first-time builing a pwd car at my classes, so it proves that if you have a good teacher and an attentive scout they can build a very competitive car .
I have been teaching a class to our pack for three years last year all top 6 winners we're from my class. We had one week between the pack race and districts so I held a additional class help tune the cars. All six of our pack placed in the top 10 in District. We took first, third, 4th, 5th, 7th and 9th. The funny thing was those six boys this was they're first-time builing a pwd car at my classes, so it proves that if you have a good teacher and an attentive scout they can build a very competitive car .
I think that I would have my tungsten putty out and adding to our car right away until we got up to 5.99 ...
My son's car did so well this year people called us cheater's. Thought we bought a premade car. My son is seven I did cut the car out did most of the research on how to build a better car. He sanded it painted and helped set it up. I think mainly they where just jealous. The father and son team that wins every year didn't even congratulate my son. It's a shame the adults act that way it's supp0sed to fun.
Reading through this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that no matter how hard you try to make a scout race an even playing field there will always be that bad egg. There will always be a parent that thinks " the scout didn't build that" or it's only fast cuzz dad's a .....
You can't please everyone. Sometimes you Just have to nod your head and smile or ignore that comment and move on.
You can't please everyone. Sometimes you Just have to nod your head and smile or ignore that comment and move on.
First, congrats to your son. Sorry to hear people called you cheaters. My son won this year, and I'm sure some people thought he must have cheated. It's human nature, I guess.
While I wanted to curb cheating, I most definitely don't believe fast = cheating.
You're definitely right. You can't please everyone. Until this year, as Cubmaster and a father of a racer, I stayed out of the tech aspect of the PWD. I had to address some issues, however, after our PWD finished up last year and a few cars were brought to my attention. One was a mill cut car from DerbyDust. Another had a long wheelbase. One was revealed to be bought, not built by the younger sibling who was upset he didn't win (took that one with a grain of salt) and a couple others when "best of" awards and were clearly Revell cars. We'll never get rid of the breaking or bending of rules, we had to make an effort to steer the ship away from the anything goes iceberg we were drifting a little too close to. It was interesting to see how a few people were all of a sudden slower this year when we made it clear that we would be checking closely.
Thank you we appreciate it. One thing that was really sad is no one said anything face to face. The parents who called us cheaters said it to their children and they in turn said it to my son.We wanted to make a better car than last year's that's it. We watched youtube vids and I talked to one pro racer about canting wheels and how to set up a rail rider. Deep down all the boys want to win that's just how it is. Like I said it's supposed to be fun from making them to racing them.
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