Scout Pinewood

[BlewBYu]

My son is a webelos 1. Yesterday, he had his first meeting of the year. I have been working on the Den Master for 4-5 months to allow me to open up the Pinewood derby. He told me to present him with my ideas, and if the parents like the idea, he'd turn it all over to me.

Typically, the boys run 6 races and they are finished. There are no championship runs or anything like that. After everyone has run, we find out what place we ended up in each Den about 2 weeks later. I never liked this set-up. I feel like it takes too much effort to build a car for just 17.5-20 seconds of race time (6 races). I want to make it where there are run-offs of the fastest cars. I want to have the potential to have more races over 2 days instead of one. I also want to hold a couple of garage days to learn to build the cars, as well as a test and tune day.

What I want to know from you scout dads is simply this: what ideas do you have, or your Den uses to make the Pinewood Derby the best it can be? Tell me how to make the PWD the one thing that all the scouts talk about for the rest of the year. I am going to depend heavily on your ideas and suggestions. Thanks in advance.

BBU

 

[Vitamin K]

Our den has a four lane track. We have a regular round, where each car runs on each track once and calculate the 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each den from that round. Then, we take the top 3 scores from each den and promote them into a championship round, where each car races another 4 heats to determine 1st, 2nd and 3rd overall.

We also have an 'open' class for siblings and parents, but those cars don't get promoted to the championship round.

One thing we experimented with last time was to allow the scouts to stage their own cars. It added some time to the heats, but the boys really enjoyed it, and it was not as chaotic as some people were fearing. We did run short on time, though, so we had to make the championship race adult staged.

 

[zigzag]

One thing we experimented with last time was to allow the scouts to stage their own cars. It added some time to the heats, but the boys really enjoyed it, and it was not as chaotic as some people were fearing. We did run short on time, though, so we had to make the championship race adult staged.

My daughter's group did this as well - and worked very well. They just called up the racers for the next heat and gave everyone their car, etc while the current race was being run. The girls placed their cars on the track (there was an older girl helping stage when necessary) and then they sat 'inside the ropes' in a space designated for their car's lane. As they exited each girl was handed a ribbon for how they placed in the heat. I thought it was a nice way to get the 'racers' involved and to keep them engaged. We had about 130 cars and they ran 5 heats in a few hours.

 

[561 racing]

We have a small pack and a four lane track and don't run finals either, so what I did was rotate groups on the track another group races Mario cart for medals for top 3 on best times per den and last group builds stands for their cars and PWD slides for their handkerchiefs, keeps the kids busy and they all have a great time even when they are not racing. We don't let kids stage cars but each kids gets to start the race and I just won a Christmas tree starter from MA this year so that will add to the excitement. We are in Webelos 1 this year and for our last year we will add the space derby for a great last race for my kid. I will say the kids still talk about last years PWD, plus the kids and adults love it too. Hope this helps!!! Good luck to you in changing your race.

 

[BulldogRacing]

How do I set the software to let "Like speed cars" race each other after the first heats? I've seen this done and it's cool when the races are a little closer. I tried it with my Grand Prix and failed. Help!

 

[Vitamin K]

How do I set the software to let "Like speed cars" race each other after the first heats? I've seen this done and it's cool when the races are a little closer. I tried it with my Grand Prix and failed. Help!

When you create the schedule for a given group of racers, you'd want to use 'Dynamic' instead of 'Perfect-N'.

 

[LightninBoy]

Our den has a four lane track. We have a regular round, where each car runs on each track once and calculate the 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each den from that round. Then, we take the top 3 scores from each den and promote them into a championship round, where each car races another 4 heats to determine 1st, 2nd and 3rd overall.

Is this graphite only or is oil allowed?

One thing we experimented with last time was to allow the scouts to stage their own cars. It added some time to the heats, but the boys really enjoyed it, and it was not as chaotic as some people were fearing. We did run short on time, though, so we had to make the championship race adult staged.

Interesting. Was this for all age groups? How much adult assistance was there to help and maybe even correct obvious poor staging?

 

[Vitamin K]

Our den has a four lane track. We have a regular round, where each car runs on each track once and calculate the 1st, 2nd, 3rd for each den from that round. Then, we take the top 3 scores from each den and promote them into a championship round, where each car races another 4 heats to determine 1st, 2nd and 3rd overall.

Is this graphite only or is oil allowed?

Our Pack aligns with our District rules, which are currently graphite-only. I'm beating the drum to allow for oil this season, but it's not a done deal yet.

One thing we experimented with last time was to allow the scouts to stage their own cars. It added some time to the heats, but the boys really enjoyed it, and it was not as chaotic as some people were fearing. We did run short on time, though, so we had to make the championship race adult staged.

Interesting. Was this for all age groups? How much adult assistance was there to help and maybe even correct obvious poor staging?

We allowed all age groups to stage. We build a platform for the boys to stand on, and had an adult helper standing by to assist (and catch, if need be). Smaller kids were allowed to have their parents help them.

Our adult stager did actually do some correction of the cars, which I didn't really ask him to do. I would have preferred that, given that the car was actually on the track, they be left as the boys set them. I might try to emphasize this, if we do cub-staging again this season.

 

[Vitamin K]

Just got done talking to one of the other organizers for our District Pinewood Derby. Going into the meeting, I had two things I wanted to try to accomplish:

1) Adopt the NSC's rules for wheels and axles

2) Open up the use of liquid lubricant for our district PWD.

Happily, he was onboard for both!

Now need to get these new rules written up and distributed...

 

[LightninBoy]

Sweeeeeet.

 

[BlewBYu]

"Just got done talking to one of the other organizers for our District Pinewood Derby. Going into the meeting, I had two things I wanted to try to accomplish:

1) Adopt the NSC's rules for wheels and axles

2) Open up the use of liquid lubricant for our district PWD.

Happily, he was onboard for both!"

I had the opposite occur. I wanted the rules to run more closely to what we have at NPWDRL by allowing us to use our ingenuity to go faster. No dice! They won't allow very much to be done to the wheels or axles.

I tried to introduce the idea of using oil, but that was shot down as well. (Too expensive they said...uhmm, OK)

I wanted there to be run-offs, pitting the fastest against each other and culminating with an elimination style competition. They nixed that idea as well. Said it would make the losers feel bad.

But the one thing they are going to add based upon my suggestions is a second day of racing. The kids run 6 races on Saturday against their den. They return the next day to run 6 more against people across the pack that had similar times. While there won't be an elimination, at least the kids get to run an extra set of 6 races.

 

[Crash Enburn]

Two days for a Pack Pinewood Derby?? How big is your pack? If it's taking this long because you are letting 6 boys stage their own cars for each heat, you may want to move away from that.

 

[Vitamin K]

We don't do run-offs or elimination. What we do is promote the top-3 from each Cub Scout rank into a Grand Finals race, and let those cars race for the "Fastest in the Pack" trophies.

 

[Kinser Racing]

Do the kids a favor and let them know what it's like to feel bad about losing. Tell these PC people to quit cottling kids and let them feel the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. These people are doing kids and this world a major disservice. These kids are going to grow up to be the next leaders of this country. It ticks me off when people do this to our kids. When all we do is let our kids feel all warm and fuzzy they aren't able to handle any of the challenges of life. Losing a pinewood derby race is a little thing and if they can't learn to handle that, what's going to happen when they lose a loved one, their home, a job or have to face a serious illness? By small and simple things are great things brought to pass. A tree that has never had the wind blow upon it snaps when the wind blows but a tree that has always had the wind blow upon it is strong with deep roots.

 

[Rat Pack Racing]

Kinser, those are my sentiments exactly and I've never heard it stated any better than that. Problem is very few of today's young parents share that view.

 

[Quicktimederby]

Well their DUMB!!!!!!!! To know Joy you need to know Pain. In the auto industry we have a big shortage of young people who have the drive to work through problems, ones that are not afraid to fail and learn from their failures. And because they learn from their failures it gives them the confidants to tackle other problems. It saddens me deeply that this generation will not know how to fail.

Problem is very few of today's young parents share that view.

 

[BulldogRacing]

What is funny about this is if the kids were asked if their should be run offs or finals or larger trophies or more competition, or oil allowed most kids in my experience would jump all over it. Those same kids may cry because they don't win but all of them love the thrill of the journey! Every kid is happy as hell before the race, but no matter the rule sets only one kid will win! That is if they are allowed to keep the score. I would ask the committee to talk with the kids, ask them what they want. Everything else said in this thread is spot on in my book, the book of life can be likened to PWD!

 

[BlewBYu]

I wanted to have 2 days of racing because I want them to run the cars as much as possible. In the past, we would just run our 6 races and then went home. They later told us where we placed.

I wanted to come back and race the extra day. In my mind that second day was to be an elimination day, but they weren't going to go for it. The best I could get was to have "comparable racers" to race each other on day 2. So now, the top 25 per cent will run against each other, the next 25 per cent runs against each other, and so on.

When did we turn into this big wuss group that wants to hold hands and sing Kum-by-ya?

Evidently, this is where we are going guys. Someone needs to put the brakes on this. The kids will learn about failure one way or another. Better to learn early and grow from it is all I can say.

 

[Rat Pack Racing]

True story about my sons first year in Little League. He was a year too young but he could hold his own and the coach let him play. This coach gave the newer kids more playing time than the rules dictated, unlike some other coaches. At the end of the season they were in contention for the playoffs. The coach held a meeting and asked the kids if he should keep the playing time like it was or use the better guys more and try for the playoffs. To a kid they all voted to go for it. They all wanted to try and win. I tell this story whenever this subject comes up.

 

[dpatrick911]

It is a shame that this country has gone from celebrating success to celebrating mediocrity. Participation trophies are rubbish. You either won or you did not win. Learn to deal with it.

As a football coach, our team has taken our lumps. But we have taken them like men. We learned from it. I have had coaches run up the score because they could. But there is always a day of reckoning. When the shoe is on the other foot with these teams. I don't bother taking my foot off the pedal. I have actually been called out by these same coaches for running up the score. I look them dead in the eye, and say "Not so much fun when the shoe is on the other foot is it?" "We took our lumps like men, you lost, now have some class and take your lumps like men."