Tales of Cheating

[Wolfram Racing]

Strict rule set...no wheel mods, no vendor axles, original slot locations, 4 wheel touching, no oil, etc. The initial inspections were done by young boyscouts. I got there for inspection when nobody was in line and watched them do the checks. I can only imagine how easily somebody could have gotten a Street Pro through if there was a line of impatient parents and kids.
I wish I knew what they did...but yeah, you post 3.0 seconds on a 49 foot Besttrack with those rules, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls out shenanigans. Even the best league racers with Box Stock type rules barely break 3 seconds on a 42 foot track let alone on a 49!!! I'd love to get VFC or King to run their Box Stock down a 49 foot track to see what times they post...but I'll bet money it's over 3.0 seconds.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Strict rule set...no wheel mods, no vendor axles, original slot locations, 4 wheel touching, no oil, etc. The initial inspections were done by young boyscouts. I got there for inspection when nobody was in line and watched them do the checks. I can only imagine how easily somebody could have gotten a Street Pro through if there was a line of impatient parents and kids.
I wish I knew what they did...but yeah, you post 3.0 seconds on a 49 foot Besttrack with those rules, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls out shenanigans. Even the best league racers with Box Stock type rules barely break 3 seconds on a 42 foot track let alone on a 49!!! I'd love to get VFC or King to run their Box Stock down a 49 foot track to see what times they post...but I'll bet money it's over 3.0 seconds.

My mind is boggling at how they did this! Doesn't seem mathematically possible. I won on our 49 foot bestrack with a 3.5836 and thought that was fast! Set our track record. Wow. I know every track is different though.

They definitely had to be running oil. My guess would be some kind of propulsion system to get those times. Bearings? The whole kitchen sink of cheats for sure! Amazing how they even got through inspection, but very easily could have with people with no experience and whom are younger. There dads have to be morons to think they would get away with it! Talk about throwing up a red flag.

Not saying I would cheat, but if I did I would make sure it would be in a way that I was just slightly faster than everyone to not alert suspicions. Wouldn't want to stand out like that. Wow.

Then again, I think a lot of times people are unfortunately skeptical of ANY winners. Especially if they have two kids that both do good in the same race or they win year after year. You just have to accept people feeling like that, will be part winning.

 

[Wolfram Racing]

If by oil, you mean break cleaner on FWU wheels, then I even think that is out of the question. I'd be surprised if you could get an Unlimited car to run those times on a 49 foot track...micro brushless motors? How did they get them to start? RC? I wish I knew...never saw times like that before.

 

[Bubblegum]

So I guess the next interesting point in all of this is what to do if you suspect or even better yet are sure someone has cheated.

Again I can think of once for sure and once I was pretty sure someone cheated. The for sure one the cheating was allowed by the inspectors and the other nothing happened because things were left alone.

Do I believe others have? I am sure but without proof it is hard to move forward but with buying cars off Ebay and using CAD software and a 3d printer the cheating will continue to be beyond the scope of a 10 second inspection.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

Our inspection process this year was more thorough, longer, more scrutinizing and difficult than last year. Not to mention more stressful! It was downright brutal. I have a feeling it's because they suspected cheating going on in the past and wanted to be sure to "even the field." Which is NOT going to happen no matter how difficult they are. I don't like being made to feel like a cheater, which I felt I was by comments. Still burns me to hear those words..."No rail riders."

 

[Mojo Racing]

When I was on the pinewood derby committee, I always told them to have teardowns of the top 5 cars ( Five, in case there were DQs).

They never would vote that in, but they would be mad when the boys who came to me for coaching would finish 1-2-3. LOL

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

When I was on the pinewood derby committee, I always told them to have teardowns of the top 5 cars ( Five, in case there were DQs).

They never would vote that in, but they would be mad when the boys who came to me for coaching would finish 1-2-3. LOL

I'd be perfectly fine with that and even think it was a good idea, as long as it was stated in the rules up front and was ONE wheel/axle at random. They would have to allow a mark to be placed on the axle to be placed back in the same spot/position.

Now if I won and they said they were going to tear down to inspect, and it wasn't in the rules ahead of time, I would not be happy. I would refuse the process and take the DQ out or principal, would want my kids to do the same.

 

[recraig]

The thing that really bugs me is that some of the parents that do all the whining clearly don't put any real time and effort into helping the boys build a fast car. My son won 5 years in a row and for the last three years I offered workshops to help anyone who wanted to attend build a fast car. All three years the trophy stand was dominated by kids who attended the workshop. It really isn't rocket science at the scout level is it? I learned a lot here and passed most of it along (OK, I kept the tungsten heavy bar to myself until after this year, but anyone could have found them online!!).

Still, we had some parents whining about the kids who came to workshops because all of their cars looked similar and they didn't see how the boys could have built them. I mean come on, simple flat wedges, polished axles and wheels with proper weighting is not that hard...

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

The thing that really bugs me is that some of the parents that do all the whining clearly don't put any real time and effort into helping the boys build a fast car. My son won 5 years in a row and for the last three years I offered workshops to help anyone who wanted to attend build a fast car. All three years the trophy stand was dominated by kids who attended the workshop. It really isn't rocket science at the scout level is it? I learned a lot here and passed most of it along (OK, I kept the tungsten heavy bar to myself until after this year, but anyone could have found them online!!).

Still, we had some parents whining about the kids who came to workshops because all of their cars looked similar and they didn't see how the boys could have built them. I mean come on, simple flat wedges, polished axles and wheels with proper weighting is not that hard...

Every single car in the finals of our pack race was a wedge or a variation of the wedge.

I should add, I gave my kids the option of a different shape that might not be as fast, or a wedge, they both chose wedges. They are like there dad, all about the speed.

 

[Mojo Racing]

I'd be perfectly fine with that and even think it was a good idea, as long as it was stated in the rules up front and was ONE wheel/axle at random. They would have to allow a mark to be placed on the axle to be placed back in the same spot/position.

Now if I won and they said they were going to tear down to inspect, and it wasn't in the rules ahead of time, I would not be happy. I would refuse the process and take the DQ out or principal, would want my kids to do the same.

I would be okay if they tore it down and it wasn't in the rules... as long as they tear down all of the podium cars. Across the board or not at all if they are past the inspection stage.

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

Sounds like lightweight wheels....probably pulled them and weighed after race to confirm

 

[Andrew Winz]

I was the rules official for our pack race this year and operated a track for our district race before the 15 yr old timing gate decided to go on the fritz.... Our pack is pretty honest, follow the rules (we adopt the council rules) and generally its the older scouts that place highest. Yes, my son was 1st overall in pack and den, but I did not do the inspections. Inspections were done by two other leaders and include a fairly quick once over, including a tap test for 3 wheelers.

At districts, we had to modify a few cars because they were so narrow or hollowed out that they wouldn't trip the sensor, we got earfuls from the dads of the cars. Inspection was handed by kids in the OA, and consisted of does it weigh 5 oz and does it fit in the box. I could tell there were non stock wheels and axles in several of them. The same pack took majority of places in all heats ( my son placed 3rd in his rank, 7th overall). Granted they had all 3 scouts from each rank from Lions to AOL entered. When trophies were awarded you could tell a lot of the kids were meh, and the parents cared more about the results.

My son did probably 60% of the work: sanding, axle work, tuning board, drilling and painting. I did the wheel prep, cutting of the block down and cutting out the weight pockets. He doesn't trust himself with my router or tablesaw.

It did feel great that the overall winner was a girl from a different pack who jumped up and let out a right royal yell when they called her name.

 

[Wolfram Racing]

So I guess the next interesting point in all of this is what to do if you suspect or even better yet are sure someone has cheated.

Again I can think of once for sure and once I was pretty sure someone cheated. The for sure one the cheating was allowed by the inspectors and the other nothing happened because things were left alone.

Do I believe others have? I am sure but without proof it is hard to move forward but with buying cars off Ebay and using CAD software and a 3d printer the cheating will continue to be beyond the scope of a 10 second inspection.

What's wrong with CAD and 3D printing? They're just the modern day jigsaw or belt sander. Hell, I'd love to run a workshop for kids where they use CAD to create a car....that actually sounds like a good idea. Hmmmmm....planning for next year!

 

[Andrew Winz]

What's wrong with CAD and 3D printing? They're just the modern day jigsaw or belt sander. Hell, I'd love to run a workshop for kids where they use CAD to create a car....that actually sounds like a good idea. Hmmmmm....planning for next year!

Local library has a 3D printer people can use for free. Sure making photocopies cost 20 cents each but I can build a 3D printed kayak for free........

There's always the Build It belt loop and composite merit badges that can utilitze CAD and 3D printing as well as a couple of the NOVA awards.

 

[Bw56]

As a machinist and "Evil One" for district Its black and white for me enforcing the rules given to me. I take about 90 seconds. It freaks out a few at the minutiae details I look for. The ONE and ONLY thing that I can't guarantee is some aftermarket axles and grooves. I may have suspicions but If I can't see it without removal, it flys. A portable X-ray machine would really be fun. For one day a year I'm the most feared and hated man in Phoenix and I'm ok with that.

 

[Brian Stanley]

As a machinist and "Evil One" for district Its black and white for me enforcing the rules given to me. I take about 90 seconds. It freaks out a few at the minutiae details I look for. The ONE and ONLY thing that I can't guarantee is some aftermarket axles and grooves. I may have suspicions but If I can't see it without removal, it flys. A portable X-ray machine would really be fun. For one day a year I'm the most feared and hated man in Phoenix and I'm ok with that.

Do you have to fail a lot of cars? I'm sure you have stories!

 

[Bw56]

I've never had a "scout" bend or break the rules. Now a few grandfathers and dads..... You can tell as the boys don't have a clue what is wrong but the parents argue the guy said those parts would be legal. Overweight is the big one, everyone wants to know the tolerances. lol. I tell them upto and no more than 5 ounces. I get a few lightened wheels. They can change them out or move up to our outlaw class and race against others that chose not to follow all of the rules. Their choice. My favorite was dad sent mom and the boy down saying no problem the car was legal. When I told mom the teflon washers had to go she was puzzled and had to call dad for advice. She removed them in our pit area and was good to go. I purposely didn't watch in case I saw something I didn't see before in the inspection process. I'm more impressed when they comply and show good sportsmanship.

 

[Thinkin'Bout Racin]

As a machinist and "Evil One" for district Its black and white for me enforcing the rules given to me. I take about 90 seconds. It freaks out a few at the minutiae details I look for. The ONE and ONLY thing that I can't guarantee is some aftermarket axles and grooves. I may have suspicions but If I can't see it without removal, it flys. A portable X-ray machine would really be fun. For one day a year I'm the most feared and hated man in Phoenix and I'm ok with that.

You may think "feared and hated", but I for one would be glad that you are doing your job! You probably don't hear it much but I bet there are a number of people that try really hard to build a fast car within the rules and are happy that there is someone willing to enforce those rules.

I really like the idea of having an outlaw class so that if someone make an actual mistake that can't be fixed, that the kids still get to race! I wish they did that here!!! If so, maybe they would enforce the rules and not let people slide by?

 

[Bw56]

You are right, some cars can't be changed at the race venue in the time available. That would be an unfair advantage over the boys the stayed within the rules. We get 3 or 4 that choose the outlaw route, and another 4 or 5 that do make changes to comply. I admire those that do what they can to comply with the rules they fudged. I check almost 200 cars on race day. No matter the infraction, a scene is never made. The only way you would know a car had a problem was if it was in line just in front of you and you were paying close attention to our conversation. The pit work area is close to my station and they bounce back and forth with improvements. Then I verify the whole car again.
I do love how the cars get heavier between the rank races and the king of the hill finals. I reinspect all finalist as some relube or adjust between the heats and finals.

 

[DuckOfAllTrades]

You are right, some cars can't be changed at the race venue in the time available. That would be an unfair advantage over the boys the stayed within the rules. We get 3 or 4 that choose the outlaw route, and another 4 or 5 that do make changes to comply. I admire those that do what they can to comply with the rules they fudged. I check almost 200 cars on race day. No matter the infraction, a scene is never made. The only way you would know a car had a problem was if it was in line just in front of you and you were paying close attention to our conversation. The pit work area is close to my station and they bounce back and forth with improvements. Then I verify the whole car again.
I do love how the cars get heavier between the rank races and the king of the hill finals. I reinspect all finalist as some relube or adjust between the heats and finals.

Your are greatly appreciated my friend! I do respect inspectors and know they are doing there job. Sounds like you are a great one!