Trying to choose my DD4H wheels and axles?

[45t]

I have two cars that need wheels and axles and I've been looking through DD4H's options.

The first car is my son's cub scout scout car (wedge style, not canted). He will be subject to the standard scout rules associated with the build of the car. He won first in his age division, first overall in the pack and 7th at District last year with the wheels and axles I did myself, but he only won by a few 100th's of a second at Pack level. It was too close of a win and I want to put a better wheel/axle set up on it this year to give it a better edge on racing at Pack level and Districts.

I was looking at the Dynasty BASX or Rage wheels with 92X pro axles for my sons car?

The second car is my car that will be submitted in the open unlimited class at my son's pack race. There are no restrictions on it. I won first and third last year with two different cars. I'd like to get the fastest wheel/axle combo I can on the car I'm entering this year. I'd like the wheels/axles to look stock by apperances only.

I was looking at the Dynasty Lite Speed or Intimid8r wheels for my car but was unsure of the axles?

I plan on having both sets race prepped for graphite.

Any suggestions from the experts?

 

[Hogans Racing]

We run 92 axles with point and rage wheels on my son's scout cars. They are a great wheel and he has always passed tech inspection for being " out of the kit" wheels. He is the raining champ 3 years running. As far as your car you can't get a faster full tread wheel then the Intimid8or with 92x axles.

 

[GravityX]

If you decide to run the Intimid8or wheels, do not forget to buy the wheels spacers or they will rub the body and slow you way down. The 92X grooved axles are the only way to fly.

Running with no restrictions in the open unlimited class I would use oil instead of graphite, oil is faster by a long shot. As long as you are buying from John you might as well go ahead and purchase the DVD he has to find out how to correctly prep the axles and wheel bores.

 

[45t]

Do I need the wheel spacers if I'm not reversing the Intimid8r wheels?

 

[GravityX]

If you are running canted rear axles you will need to run the Intimid8r wheels reversed. The wheel tread surface is too thin on the outer edge to properly support the car. The wheel will flex and likely break. On the DFW location you don't have to reverse the wheel to run it because it loads in the opposite way.

I've never ran these wheels "flat", without a canted rear axle. Wheels are too fragile for me to try otherwise.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

I personally recommend the Cheetah Xtreme if you are on an aluminum track then they are nearly as fast as the LS or Nitro because they are more rigid. The Intimid8r is a pro racer wheel and if you don't run it right it will not give the speed you are looking for.

 

[45t]

The pack race is on an Aluminum track, Districts is on wood.

I plan on running the wheels flat uncanted

 

[Rocket car]

I personally recommend the Cheetah Xtreme if you are on an aluminum track then they are nearly as fast as the LS or Nitro because they are more rigid. The Intimid8r is a pro racer wheel and if you don't run it right it will not give the speed you are looking for.

+1 cheetahs xtremes are the fastest stock looking wheels. If really you have strict rules against wheel modifcation go with the cheetahs 2.0grams with the bumps.

 

[TedBull]

There is one problem I have with Pinewood derby, fathers, and the online forums. It is the blatent "cheeting" at the scout level. Not saying that is the case here because I dont know your exact rules for your pack. But, If your pack follows the BSA grand prix kit rules it plainly states:

III. "Only official Cub Scout Grand Prix Pinewood Derby wheels and axles are permitted."

So to use the .92 pro axles on the scout car would be straight up cheating. The fact pro axles are sold with a pointed end erks me because its meant to pass visual inspection on the scout level. Ok, so say you use the BSA "official" speed "replica" axles, still cheeting but much closer to the BSA axle diameter so its a more fair option but still not right because they are machined "replicas". Nothing "official" about them.

OR..... Do what the derby is all about and let your son file and polish the kit axles.

2. As far as wheels go the rules only state you must use official BSA wheels so no problems there and I personally have no problem letting my son run DD4H "rage" wheels on his scout car at the district level. But he runs them on stock BSA axles prepped by himself.

My packs rules do not allow any wheel modifications other than "light sanding", meant for the old style wheels so it doesnt apply. I think that keeps if very fair and affordable for the average family and keeps the race fair for the kids.

Nothing wrong with wanting to best the competition and see your kid win something. But cheating to do it is not what the pinewood derby is all about.

My rant is done. Not saying your cheeting or not. But if your pack follows the kit rules its plainly spelled out.

 

[IAE Racing]

+1

 

[45t]

I'll have to check the rules before I lay down any $ on my sons car. For my unlimited car though, I'll be getting what DD4H recommends.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

Pinewood Derby rule #1- Whoever wins is a cheater.

 

[JCovert]

+1000 Ted. Good words dude. I was thinking the same, every time I read a post on using anything that clearly is faking it and acting like it's all good to cheat. It's super cool to break barriers especially when playing by the rules.

 

[AC Designs]

+1

 

[Rocket car]

Pinewood Derby rule #1- Whoever wins is a cheater.

Let the choir say" AMEN"

 

[TedBull]

Pinewood Derby rule #1- Whoever wins is a cheater.

Let the choir say" AMEN"

Thats funny, I have heard those whispers when my son won pack. You got to expect it though. Nature of competition. Little did they know he built the car and had a bunch of hours into building it and it was 100% kit built. It tought him the value of hard work, and getting it right.

Back to my original point, if guys werent cheating then there would be no reason and no market for the "BSA point pro axles" or the "BSA official speed replica axles". So plenty of guys are doing it. Why should my honest son have to run against guys who cheat?

45T, sorry to hijack your thread. All of Johns wheels are a work of art. The wheels he listed are lighter and faster, but something to consider might be the Cheetah V3's. Not as fast for the pack adult race, but you can turn around and build a car for the Street stock class and run them here.

I have some nitro wheels, but they dont fit in very well in any class here. So they only get used at districts and mid america. Another thing to note is that once you use graphite on them you are stuck with graphite for the life of that wheel and cannot convert it to oil.

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

OK Ted, then I guess it would be legal to run any axle per the scout rules. All I have to do is mount the axles that came with the kit in some dummy slots or as weights or whatever. You can also say buying wheels is cheating because they aren't the ones that came with the kit you received. You can find a way to make anything look like cheating but instead why not make the rules realistic and have fun building FAST cars with rules that can be truly judged without making a judgment call instead of everyone accusing each other of cheating. Why not allow people to use their skill rather than try and drag everyone down to a ground level. It doesn't matter what the rules are, the best builder is going to win.

 

[Guest]

Pinewood Derby rule #1- Whoever wins is a cheater.

hahahahaLOL

 

[IAE Racing]

It seems like ever several moths an ethics issue shows up. While it hurts to have one leg over each side of the fence, I'm in that spot right now.

I agree with both Ted and John. It would make sense to me to make the basic rule set for scouts like the SS here at the NPWDRL. Wheel weights could be measured and axles don't matter. Even now being a Scout leader, getting the rules changed is still difficult.

At the same time, those of us at this forum that have to race at a "strict" or "boring" rule set have learned how "win" without "cheating." Often times knocking out a few "cheaters" on the way.

I feel as leaders in the Industry, sport and hobby we should promote good ethics even though we know and realize there may not be much in some packs or districts.

I'm off my soapbox now

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

I think the point I am trying to make is that it really is just a kids pinewood derby and for some reason the adults get ridiculous about it. That is on every side. The amount of "cheating" is beyond belief from leaders and all. It will never stop unless you makes the rules simple and enforceable then there is no more people getting away with breaking the rules.

The other thing I will say is that everyone here has their own opinion on matters. We will not always agree and I am sure I am not always correct. Feel free to speak your mind!

The box scout rules are VERY wide open.