we might as well have one SS class

DerbyDad4Hire said:
There is going to be some changes coming. After next month I will have it fixed so builders are racing against people with like skill levels. Just do what you have to do to catch him.

I have to admit that it makes little sense to me having a novice class.

There should be single A

Double "A"

and triple "A" only

I think this is much less confusing .

Seriously though.

Having a NG viewpoint on this I remember asking a fellow racer at one point.

So why would someone want to race AM and not pro? Is there a benefit with the points?

He responded that it would increase enthusiasm by not getting beat by a mile. (paraphrasing)

I disagree.

Most new guys that race SS are scout dads.

They can hardly expect to place in the top 3 their first few times out.

They probably just want to know where they place amongst the best.

Whether that number is 25 or 105

Perhaps a larger pool of finals though.

Thanks
 
DerbyDad4Hire said:
There is going to be some changes coming. After next month I will have it fixed so builders are racing against people with like skill levels. Just do what you have to do to catch him.

Doing what we have to do to catch him is like saying do what you have to do to beat JBD. What's the point of a novice class or Amateur if there was no novice. It'd be the same problems there. Point is these classes were made for us less skilled BUILDERS to compete with people at our level, learn and eventually make it to pro. If I wanted to lose to a pro car everytime I would have started in pro's.
 
Seems like most naturally separate into 2 groups, under 3 seconds and above 3 seconds. Maybe run a classifying round to determine which bracket to run them in.
 
The classes are fine. Like I said the true builders are in the classes they should be in. But if you buy a car from a pro you race pro. Changes are coming John said so after May when JBD locks down the Novice bracket we'll see the changes.
 
If he was a new racer this season he belonged in novice. He has talent and skill so he excelled. We all get free advice from the forum. Just sounds like he was able to make JBD's advice work along with his building skills. Once he dominates the Novice class he can move on. If you can't catch him then race for second until he moves up.
 
Congratulations to Flying W Speedworks, HurriCrane Racing and Arcee Racing for making it into the Novice Finals!
 
Haven't gotten the chance to race here yet, so I admittedly haven't looked at all the rules, but "Novice", to me means that if you've never raced before, that's where you start.

Not all novices are the same.

Back in the day when I raced BMX, you started off in Novice, too. Once you won 3 times, you went to Expert.

IIRC, they had some formula about how many 2nds and combo of different finishes it took for you to move to Expert, but the bottom line was, 3 wins and you HAD to go to Expert.

Now, some guys showed up having never raced before and just KILLED the Novice class......so 3-4 races, and they were gone. Others took awhile to get the hang of it.

Sounds like this Flying W is one of those guys. I don't know what the criteria for moving someone up, but I'm sure there's something. If he's that good, he'll be gone soon enough. For those that he beat, now you see where you need to be. That's a good thing.

Now this seems a bit different, if a Novice bought a car from a Pro...even if you prepped it yourself, you still have an edge, especially if the pro told you what to do.
Then again, DD4H and others have sold their old cars before....but I guess a Novice has never bought one of them and then sent it in? I'm kind of mixed on this, if that's what happened.
 
At the NPWDRL you are racing against the fastest pinewood derby racers in the world. One of the things that bugs me more than anything is the I can't beat someone so I'm going to bash them. There shouldn't be any split in any classes. Hopefully the racers here don't have to have a top performing car to feel good about themselves. In my first league race I took 42 out of 43 cars. I wasn't pissed at the guys that beat me, I listened and learned till I started figuring stuff out that work for me. When you are learning, race yourself not others it will work out better for you in the end. The nice thing is we all have access to the same and the best parts available. Live it, learn it, love it.

Obsessedderbydad said:
Doing what we have to do to catch him is like saying do what you have to do to beat JBD. What's the point of a novice class or Amateur if there was no novice. It'd be the same problems there. Point is these classes were made for us less skilled BUILDERS to compete with people at our level, learn and eventually make it to pro. If I wanted to lose to a pro car everytime I would have started in pro's.
 
QT I think some people are upset because instead of the learning curve ,which it sounds like you took, he said screw the forum I'll buy a car and race as my own, not reverse engineer. JBD was very nice to also mentor him.
The time on HIS car in February was decent.

QT did you win your second race and crush everyone your third ?

Then again he might be a PWD genius.

I wouldn't be upset about losing, my favorite sports teams are the Texans,Astros and Rockets.
 
No it wasn't my 2nd race it was my 4th. And I jumped to a 3rd place finish racing against the best of the time. And you know what took me there? I tried to do all my own stuff but I didn't have a drill so I bought a pre drilled block tried polishing and bending my own axles, and lathing me own wheels. I still couldn't break sub 3. I told John that his block that he drilled for me was bad that could be the only reason why I couldn't go sub 3. He told me the block drill was fine that it had to be in the wheels and axles. I challenged him to prove it and it was the best money I spent on derbying. I raced it a couple times on his prep both times top 5 finishes. When I reprepped I was able to see how everything should be. From that time forward I had a top 10 car.
We all go about things are own way, a good competitor congratulates the winner then tries harder the next time.
I do agree that he should be in NV or AM, because it don't think there should be any divide in any classes.
 
Obsessedderbydad said:
Doing what we have to do to catch him is like saying do what you have to do to beat JBD. What's the point of a novice class or Amateur if there was no novice. It'd be the same problems there. Point is these classes were made for us less skilled BUILDERS to compete with people at our level, learn and eventually make it to pro. If I wanted to lose to a pro car everytime I would have started in pro's.

ODD, I missed the race since I was travelling, but looking at the posted results there was more than one car ahead of you. Are those guys running pro built cars too?
 
He will move on, and you all will see him again when you move up also. I don't know about buying a car or getting help that other didn't get, but I'm sure we all can get some help if we asked the right questions of the right people. The thing about all the comments that bothers me, is that some are looking back at his old times. I sent in my first car and it was a crappy car that I built in two days, I knew it was not the best I could do, did not get the supplies I needed in time. I just wanted to enter and see what it was all about instead of waiting another month.

I will be sending a much better car next month (hopefully), so what happens if I accidently do well with my first "real" build? Everyone looks at my time from this race and thinks I bought a car, or someone else built or tuned it? Its highly unlikely I will do as well as Flying W, but you get the point!
smile
 
I just read the entire thread and I have to say it has been awhile since there were some connection with the faster new guys and slower new guys.

I'm throwing this out there as is take it for what it is worth.... I have a car that was drilled by another racer who didn't like the way it would turn out... Do I consider it his trash? If a pro will not race it what can I do with it? Hell No!! I took this car shaped it a different way and yes I had help with tuning it... I didn't have anything to work this sport but BAS stack parts... This car was a really pretty car and when it came back to me from its first and only race I was not mad at the things that happened to the car but I had a chance to learn a ton... From this race it went SUB3 that was a big thing for everyone to get to SUB3... To me I didn't care a Nats A$$ on the SUB3.. I wanted to build a car and have it run and run fast... Anyone here can tell you newer guys I never said anything Negative of the new guys racing with me and smoking my car... I have this car and currently under remodel as I am going to Prep this car and it is going through a ton of changes... The front fenders had to be removed... Not that I was mad for this action it was to help the car increase it's weight in cubes.. And alignment...Prep and weights are key factors...

I guess if I bought a car from John and I am sure it has happened in the past a PRO built car and I race it and I can keep up even if I didn't win ... I am doing well... So I will ask questions, read the threads over and over and I will get there... I have 1 item left to get and I have 3 cars all built by me with different things done to them because I want to learn what will work for me 2 of these cars will be at MID AM this next weekend I am after 2 things from them... Did the 2 things I changed off my first car work? That is it .. My kids know we are not going there expecting to win as it is our first race with these cars and kid help build...

Look what you can do better for you not what others are doing ... Who cares if they buy a car whether it is a body just drilled or a complete car.. That is what they had to do to learn what they are learning... What is it that gets you to learn? How can you gain more speed... Bashing others will only hurt you in the long run.. I know you guys are all top notch and it can be frustrating but look back at your car.. How did you prep it.. was there a spec of dust, a hair or something you didn't get right? These are your areas to check... How is the alignment on this car? Where is your sweet spot on this car for weights? Are you using the right stuff and follow the steps exactly? I tuned my son's scout car on a mirror.. It ran well if i had a test track I can go faster... That was my thinking...

I know a racer who is doing really well.... He tuned on a tuning board only he is up in the ranks because he takes notes, follows his prep religiously over and over again, he talks to others as they have come to respect him as a good natured and upcoming racer..

I congratulate everyone here just for getting a car on the track and starting the hardest part... Do not get discouraged, do not bash others for what ever reason... Never Jump on someone's bandwagon it creates bad feelings and it is hard to get things going... Never Quit!! I may not race but I watch every race i can... I support every racer here.. I look at the threads and I am building cars with the kids... So stay in there train yourself to follow the Key Steps each time and you will increase I know it as I have seen it here..

Here is a thought I will leave you with... How many of the "Pros" are posting bad things as they have fast cars.. that race each month and you see some of these cars get shipped from around the US... I have not seen them posting it as they can't beat this guy... They High five um and say wait til next month... How did the Pinks race go... I had no internet service... Did the challenger win? I bet they both had a blast watching their cars go at it... I bet there is no hard feelings between them... One of the best of the best going up against John...

Enough as this has been drawn out.... Race, Learn, Prep, Race, Learn, Prep, Race, Leran, Prep
 
bracketracer said:
Obsessedderbydad said:
Doing what we have to do to catch him is like saying do what you have to do to beat JBD. What's the point of a novice class or Amateur if there was no novice. It'd be the same problems there. Point is these classes were made for us less skilled BUILDERS to compete with people at our level, learn and eventually make it to pro. If I wanted to lose to a pro car everytime I would have started in pro's.

ODD, I missed the race since I was travelling, but looking at the posted results there was more than one car ahead of you. Are those guys running pro built cars too?

I have no problems with anyone that beats me as I need to figure out my cars because there's something very wrong with them. The problem is if I wanted to race against Pro built cars, I would have joined the Pro class. But seeing as my skill level isnt there I went novice thinking I would be racing against people with the same skill level as me. That turns out to not be the case. I dont care if the whole novice class up and buys cars. I can't stop that nor change that. But what's the point of having a novice class for novice builders if there's going to be pro built cars racing in it?
 
Your time is your time. There are no prizes to miss out on. No one is being cheated out of anything.
 
The problem ODD is where do you draw the line? Would you say that buying a pre-drilled block from John means you should race pro? What if you buy axles, wheels, pre-drilled block? At what point does it become your car? To be completely honest I am not sure how I feel about someone buying a complete car; however, the thing I like about adult racing is that for the most part there aren't people trying to make you feel bad about how you made your car fast. The only thing that should matter is that you have a fast car.