- Nov 24, 2011
- 3,903
- 30
- 48
- 13
What do you think???
- Thread starter DerbyDad4Hire
- Start date
- Nov 24, 2011
- 3,903
- 30
- 48
- 13
IMHO, the whole purpose of BSA, both at cub and scout levels, is to prepare the the boy for real life. The rant John posted above is full of a combination of Political Correctness, AND "every boy must think he is a winner". He should read Jesus' parable of the talents. He represents the man who buried his talent in the sand. And what happened to that man? This talent was taken away and given to the man who multiplied his 10 talents. I want my boys (sons & grandsons) to take the talents that they were given and multiply them. And I want them ready to compete in the real world. Working with their dads, as has been nicely described by others on this forum, setting the goal (and to us the goal is winning), perseverance over a period of time to achieve the goal, paying attention to the minute details, and never losing focus; that is the real road to success. And that is the BSA program.
The Boy Scout road, when properly followed from Tiger Cubs, through Webelos, and from Tenderfoot to Eagle, IMO is a great way to train the boy. And the pine wood derby path is a part and parcel of that path to adult success. "every boy must be a winner" should never be a part of the Scout motto. There will always be a winner, and the looser, and everything in between. The boys must learn that, and be taught to realize that that is the reality of life. Prepare for it now.
The scout commissioner, quoted above, has his head in the sand. I was in the Scouting program for 25 years, many of them as a scout master. I wanted all my boys to succeed. Whether it was building a Pinewood Derby car, or building a sled for the BSA winter events, our goal as a troop, was to be a winner. And if we didn't make it in this year, do a serious evaluation, and win next year. AND INDIVIDUALLY, make it a goal to become an Eagle; stick with it, and become a "10 Talent man". Over the years, as each decade passed, half the boys were 10 talent boys. 25% were 5 talent boys (often because of poor parent interface), and the rest became one talent individuals, and probably destined to become so the rest of their lives. I know there are exceptions, but this is the general norm.
The Boy Scout road, when properly followed from Tiger Cubs, through Webelos, and from Tenderfoot to Eagle, IMO is a great way to train the boy. And the pine wood derby path is a part and parcel of that path to adult success. "every boy must be a winner" should never be a part of the Scout motto. There will always be a winner, and the looser, and everything in between. The boys must learn that, and be taught to realize that that is the reality of life. Prepare for it now.
The scout commissioner, quoted above, has his head in the sand. I was in the Scouting program for 25 years, many of them as a scout master. I wanted all my boys to succeed. Whether it was building a Pinewood Derby car, or building a sled for the BSA winter events, our goal as a troop, was to be a winner. And if we didn't make it in this year, do a serious evaluation, and win next year. AND INDIVIDUALLY, make it a goal to become an Eagle; stick with it, and become a "10 Talent man". Over the years, as each decade passed, half the boys were 10 talent boys. 25% were 5 talent boys (often because of poor parent interface), and the rest became one talent individuals, and probably destined to become so the rest of their lives. I know there are exceptions, but this is the general norm.
I agree, it's about knowledge not how much you spend. I've been in this hobby for a whole three months. Yes there was some cost to get started for some good products from DD4H. When I got my order and saw polishes, waxes, pipe cleaners, various grits of sandpaper, wheels and axles, and a bunch of other stuff I knew I had no clue how to put together a competive car. I thought this was going to be easy, spend a little money, put this and that together, start winning. After a lot of help from the racers at Zeebzob's shop I was able to put together a car that is pretty competitive. I could have spent a lot more money and bought the best parts available, but I still would not have known what to do with everything. All of the racers here have been really helpful to me. The information to build a winning car without spending a lot of money is here, you just need to look for it or ask and someone will point you to the info you need. I'm looking forward to my second race in Febuary, watching the races and learning how to adjust and tune my car to go faster.DerbyDad4Hire said:
G
Guest
Guest
As Zeebzob said life is not always fair and it takes money to get speed to compete at the upper levels in most cases. If you get into big time racing it takes money to win. But as many said with the knowledge and right tools you can win at the local level with a much smaller budget.
What kind of irritates me with the comments is on the Boy Scout online site they sell a bunch of crap tools and even sell Krytox. So it seems to me they are promoting a lot of the same things he is saying are destroying the spirit of pinewood derby.
Don't try to handicap people for putting in the effort. The playing field is rarely if ever level for everyone. It seems like a lot of people who rail against many of the things are just ticked because they can't figure it out and give up. Bought a bunch of crap tools and read a bunch of "expert" advice on the internet and their cars were slow. I mean everything you read on the internet is true isn't it? And those same people were probably surprised that the NSA is monitoring everything on the internet and their phones. Oh wait better not go off on that path..........
What kind of irritates me with the comments is on the Boy Scout online site they sell a bunch of crap tools and even sell Krytox. So it seems to me they are promoting a lot of the same things he is saying are destroying the spirit of pinewood derby.
Don't try to handicap people for putting in the effort. The playing field is rarely if ever level for everyone. It seems like a lot of people who rail against many of the things are just ticked because they can't figure it out and give up. Bought a bunch of crap tools and read a bunch of "expert" advice on the internet and their cars were slow. I mean everything you read on the internet is true isn't it? And those same people were probably surprised that the NSA is monitoring everything on the internet and their phones. Oh wait better not go off on that path..........
G
Guest
Guest
Thanks! But it was not all of my doing. It was a lot of help from racers here in southeastern WI. that took the time to help me. Zeebzob who reached out to me and invited me to his shop, helped to get my car to make weight and let me tune it on his track. E3 who spent a lot of time helping me put the car together. Yes my car was fast, but we'll see if it stays that way when I start to take it apart and start to re-prep everything and putting it back together. Then we'll see how much knowledge I picked up from everyone on this discussion board!laserman said:
if you dont put the time in you not going to get fast.its pretty simple..hard work you get fast no work you get nothing
As I read frustrations of the angry father/ Grandfather several points came to mind.
1[sup]st[/sup] I think your website gives every scout the opportunity to race competitive despite how big of a tool box his father has.
2[sup]nd[/sup] Life lesson is winning is not cheap. This goes along with sports and life itself. Most successful people pay for themselves to attend some type of schooling/ training in order to get ahead in life. Why because WINNING IS NOT CHEAP.
3[sup]rd[/sup] My son came to mind. The other day he decided it was time to start building his car for this year. I asked him how fast of a car he wanted (he knows that the faster the car the more expensive) he said as fast as we can build. He got on the internet priced everything out and has worked every day since in order to earn the money needed. I may be crazy but I feel like this is going to be a better learning experience then us building everything from the parts out of the box. Oh and by the way we will be building it together he does not get off easy and just get to watch me work.
1[sup]st[/sup] I think your website gives every scout the opportunity to race competitive despite how big of a tool box his father has.
2[sup]nd[/sup] Life lesson is winning is not cheap. This goes along with sports and life itself. Most successful people pay for themselves to attend some type of schooling/ training in order to get ahead in life. Why because WINNING IS NOT CHEAP.
3[sup]rd[/sup] My son came to mind. The other day he decided it was time to start building his car for this year. I asked him how fast of a car he wanted (he knows that the faster the car the more expensive) he said as fast as we can build. He got on the internet priced everything out and has worked every day since in order to earn the money needed. I may be crazy but I feel like this is going to be a better learning experience then us building everything from the parts out of the box. Oh and by the way we will be building it together he does not get off easy and just get to watch me work.
G
Guest
Guest
Awww Man!
KC,
You realize that you are probably creating the Tiger Woods of the PWD world.
The kid is probably trolling this site right now for speed tips!
I guess we better keep it G rated after all!
KC,
You realize that you are probably creating the Tiger Woods of the PWD world.
The kid is probably trolling this site right now for speed tips!
I guess we better keep it G rated after all!
This is supposed to be a project that father and son work on together....not son do it all and dad just sit back and watch....and the level of involvement is dependent on the age and ability of the boy.
I think its more sad and wrong to just sit and watch your son's car limp down the track while others are just passing them by....and then explaining that finishing is not important and sadness and disappointment are just a part of life, and by the way you should just be proud you did it all yourself (implying that all the others didn't play fair??? is that what we are trying to say with PWD......(just an observation). It doesn't have to be that way at all. You can build fast cars, have fun, teach them building lessons and safety tips, bond with your child, and teach good sportsmanship all at the same time...
The original poster stated his piece of mind and that's fine....everyone is entitled to an opinion...all that freedom of speech and stuff...as long as people like the poster don't take it the next step and do things that will encroach on John's or anyone else's freedom to provide a service. The services are MUCH appreciated and should be available to those that want to use it and don't feel that its an attack on their own personal ethics to get help from people who have been there before...
again if he is just venting his own opinion no problem...if he is hoping or trying to get people to believe in his way of thinking and to promote not using services like John's then no....take it somewhere else....John's and other vendors rights to provide these services is just as important and lawful as his rights to not want to use it or believe in it....
I think its more sad and wrong to just sit and watch your son's car limp down the track while others are just passing them by....and then explaining that finishing is not important and sadness and disappointment are just a part of life, and by the way you should just be proud you did it all yourself (implying that all the others didn't play fair??? is that what we are trying to say with PWD......(just an observation). It doesn't have to be that way at all. You can build fast cars, have fun, teach them building lessons and safety tips, bond with your child, and teach good sportsmanship all at the same time...
The original poster stated his piece of mind and that's fine....everyone is entitled to an opinion...all that freedom of speech and stuff...as long as people like the poster don't take it the next step and do things that will encroach on John's or anyone else's freedom to provide a service. The services are MUCH appreciated and should be available to those that want to use it and don't feel that its an attack on their own personal ethics to get help from people who have been there before...
again if he is just venting his own opinion no problem...if he is hoping or trying to get people to believe in his way of thinking and to promote not using services like John's then no....take it somewhere else....John's and other vendors rights to provide these services is just as important and lawful as his rights to not want to use it or believe in it....
The bigger problem here is the leaders that are making all these stupid rules then letting their kid or a friends kid get through inspection with a major advantage. I am completely amazed at how stupid the rules in a lot of these pack races are. The latest in the long list is you can't intentionally make the car ride the rail. I love the ones that allow lightened wheels but no canting. The stupid rule sets can almost always be traced back to a leader who had a kid that he molded the rules for according to what the leader had the skill to give his kid an advantage.
Speaking of oil, are the scouts going to adopt it now that it is sold in the scout stores? There will never be an end to this kind of stuff and the stupid rules and that is why my site works. I can tailor make products to meet any rules.
Speaking of oil, are the scouts going to adopt it now that it is sold in the scout stores? There will never be an end to this kind of stuff and the stupid rules and that is why my site works. I can tailor make products to meet any rules.
G
Guest
Guest
Well Said WK.W&K Creations said:
I just wonder how frustrating it must be for John.
Here he is the Bobby Fischer of PWD and he has to try to convince guys that play the game once a year with their kid, that he knows what he is talking about. LOL
Not just the technical aspects of the game but pretty much everything.
Wow, away for a day... John, thank you for posting this letter. Hopefully this gentleman has the opportunity to take the time to read some of the responses. I believe it is a good discussion starter and hopefully it was sent to more places than here.
It's amazing, we raced cub scouts and girl scouts and Pioneers Club for three years before I thought "hey lets look on the internet" Three years of winning at the local levels and placing at district. I too thought buying stuff on the internet was (some still is-DW) dumb. The reason we were successful is because of the skills my dad taught and shared with me. (we can't live in the 80's forever-Thank GOD!)
Before districts last year I thought well lets try to up the game here a little. Found DD4H got some graphite. That was the first time we didn't place at Districts (not because of John's graphite).
Then we learned of the MA races two hours away. Lots of learning to do. We did buy parts for this race and was successful.
The knowledge here is priceless. regardless of the rule set, no matter how stupid, restricted, fair/unfair good/bad.. knowledge and time is what will bring the top cars to the top. If you don't spend that time and knowledge with your kids. you're the loser.
I guess the point here is Just because you race here doesn't mean you turn around and put a league car in a pack race. Just becase you buy supplies here doesn't mean you put them in a pack race that doesn't "allow for"
Not every winner is a cheater, and not every cheat is a winner.
It's amazing, we raced cub scouts and girl scouts and Pioneers Club for three years before I thought "hey lets look on the internet" Three years of winning at the local levels and placing at district. I too thought buying stuff on the internet was (some still is-DW) dumb. The reason we were successful is because of the skills my dad taught and shared with me. (we can't live in the 80's forever-Thank GOD!)
Before districts last year I thought well lets try to up the game here a little. Found DD4H got some graphite. That was the first time we didn't place at Districts (not because of John's graphite).
Then we learned of the MA races two hours away. Lots of learning to do. We did buy parts for this race and was successful.
The knowledge here is priceless. regardless of the rule set, no matter how stupid, restricted, fair/unfair good/bad.. knowledge and time is what will bring the top cars to the top. If you don't spend that time and knowledge with your kids. you're the loser.
I guess the point here is Just because you race here doesn't mean you turn around and put a league car in a pack race. Just becase you buy supplies here doesn't mean you put them in a pack race that doesn't "allow for"
Not every winner is a cheater, and not every cheat is a winner.
Similar threads
