wheel spin length

[stockhardcorejeeper]

Newb question. I've seen reference to the "20 second spin" with 20 seconds off the finger as the minimum reference point for quality wheels and axles. This is with stock BSA equipment. Now I think of myself as a pretty handy guy with access to the full range of machine shop tools and fairly reasonable knowledge of polishing techniques and lubrication methodologies. I have tried many different axle cuts and polishes on both wheels and axles. I usually use Molybdenum graphite.
I have never in ten years of PWD racing been able to get a wheel to spin for more than 20 seconds. What spin length do you guys get and is this even a valid arbiter of wheel/axle quality? This is my youngest sons last year of racing and frankly I'm tired of placing 4,5,6 year after year while watching guys walk in with unfinished cars and then go to district next week. What gives?

Yours under the law of gravity

stockhardcore

 

[BulldogRacing]

Many of the fast racers use oil as a lube. Oil will beat graphite all day long. DD4H has made a great video of the process of using and prepping your car with oil. You will find the many keys to building a very fast pinewood derby car in this forum. I thought I was very fast and won many pack and district races until I met this forum. The info here is unbelievable! This link is a great place to start. Welcome to the forum.

http://www.pinewoodderbyonline.com/post/keys-to-win-from-the-pinewood-derby-king-5782181?pid=1272943640#post1272943640

 

[plhiatt]

Lighter wheels will spin for less time, If you are using them. I don't put a lot of stock in the wheel spin test with graphite, but I have checked some in the past and they do get about 20-25
seconds. Not only look at wheel prep but axle prep as well.
The reason I don't like to use the spin test is its hard to accurately spin the wheel the
exact same each time on the axle (especially bsa kit ones) and I bet with just practice you could get the spin times more. As well as more graphite in the bore as apposed to other times etc....
All graphite is not created equal either.

 

[Papa V Racing]

Stock- Welcome to the Best Forum around /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif/images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif

Your in the right place to learn as I came here and found a lot of info, help and Great advice... We were last place runners in 2010 now we are top 3 both Pack and Last Year District. Just want to toss this out there.. Depending on who you are racing... and how many kids your son races against 4th, 5th & 6th might be good.. But what you learn here will get you into the 1st, 2nd & 3rd places for sure... Alot of people visit this Forum yearly to learn How to build a better car and join this League... Hope you will become addicted and join in as well.

1st it is good that you have the background you do as it makes it easier to learn different Techniques...

1. Graphite if it is the required lube Get Johns Graphite I have used it 2 years now with great results. I know others have shared their testimonies as well on the forum.
2. Not sure of what process you are using but as BullDog mentioned the Video, it is a great tool to help out and to reference in between preps. John has them on his site still. http://www.shop.derbydad4hire.com/Videos-and-Books_c12.htm. or Click the link at the top left of the page DerbyDad4Hire...
3. What type of weights are you using and the placement, this has a bit to do with it not as much as Wheel Prep and Alignment.. Trust me I had a car with a back wheel slightly out and it got smoked in an Outlaw race. I also used the Hobby Lobby graphite and not the process to prep axles with negative results as well as no tuning skills to keep us bouncing of the rails race after race.
4.Do you use the slots, drilling holes, the gimmick tools out there do not work trust me as everyone here has had the same issue. John has the Silver Bullet for drilling holes. He also has Youtube videos out there that are very helpful.

There is a ton of info in this forum and The Best of the Best that race here and help out alot....

Here is a link as well to 5kidsracing- Scott has a dedicated page of how to's for guys like us who are tired of being on the bottom.. Scott is a memeber on this board as well and he is well liked by the guys here... http://5kidsracing.webs.com/. I am sure you will get a lot of your questions answered and the guys might ask you more then what I put up... I sure I just hit some where I had issues with...

I am not a Pro, but I have been able to take the info I have learned here from some of our Pro racers and get results... I hope this is a start to your success in racing with your son & helps you out...

Papa V

 

[Kinser Racing]

Speaking specifically of wheel spin, it's most likely your graphite. They are not all created equal. Get this: http://www.shop.derbydad4hire.com/Zero-Friction-Graphite-Lube-T-016.htm

or get Hob e Lube graphite, not the teflon or anything else. The stuff from DerbyDad4Hire is the best as has been stated.

I don't put too much stock into wheelspin for obvious reasons. We use oil and wheel spin is less than half that of graphite but oil is faster.

There's also a possibility that what your using to polish wheels and/or axles leaves behind a residue that slows things down. They do interact if not completely removed.

You're here now which has greatly increased your chances of taking a win, if you follow what's here.

 

[TRE]

Speaking specifically of wheel spin, it's most likely your graphite. They are not all created equal. Get this: http://www.shop.derbydad4hire.com/Zero-Friction-Graphite-Lube-T-016.htm

or get Hob e Lube graphite, not the teflon or anything else. The stuff from DerbyDad4Hire is the best as has been stated.

I don't put too much stock into wheelspin for obvious reasons. We use oil and wheel spin is less than half that of graphite but oil is faster.

There's also a possibility that what your using to polish wheels and/or axles leaves behind a residue that slows things down. They do interact if not completely removed.

You're here now which has greatly increased your chances of taking a win, if you follow what's here.

+1

 

[stockhardcorejeeper]

usually use rouge and a cotton buffing wheel for final polish but then use laquer thinner to clean off axle. My graphite has moly but you are right that I don't know much more than that about it. I don't lighten wheels any more than is necessary than to true them and then use the toothpaste/pipecleaner polish to smooth the bore. whats with the q-tip polishing method? I would be concerned with creating too much heat that would distort the plastic rather than polishing it.

 

[TRE]

you use novus 2 and qtip..you go slow and only go for about 15 sec up and down the qtip few times thats it..you gota have the right size qtips..walgreens brand studio 35 are good

 

[Chief]

Welcome to the forum! If you are really tired of the other guys wining, you absolutly need to buy DD4H DVD. That will help a LOT. Next what are your rules about lubrication? Your axle and wheel bore polishing is only part of the winning combintion. You also need alignment, and good weight placement.

 

[ngyoung]

Looks like you have a basic axle and wheel polishing process. It can do fine for a lot of packs but it looks like you have a fairly competitive group. Trying the process thar was referenced in the 5kidsracing.webs.com site will give you more speed. As for getting the wheel too hot, you will only want to have the drill turning as slow as it can. My hand drill I just barely squeeze the trigger to get the drill moving.

How do you drill your axle holes or use the slots? Do you run a 3 wheel car? Do you set it to run against the rail? If your rules allow those areas of focus will make a huge difference in speed as well.

 

[davet]

I've had as high as 37 seconds with Panef graphite (fine flakes). This was after running the car at 5 oz on the treadmill for 10-15 seconds at a time each time adding more graphite. Did this about 5 or 6 times. This burnishes the wheel by using the weight of the vehicle. People tell you not to do it but we went to districts with that 8-wheeled tank and even won a heat there. It's very messy and clean the track/belt afterwards otherwise the next person to get on it will slide right off.

We would groove our stock axles and taper the heads, polished to 3,000 grit then polish again with jewelers polish and clean with alcohol. Another way to burnish after the Novus process is done is with a Q-tip. Cut a fuzzy end off at an angle and bend the shaft in half at a 90. Place the wheel on your finger covering the center hole with your finger on the bottom. Fill the bore to the top with graphite. Now keep your finger over the bottom so the graphite can't come out and slowly insert (tight fit) and spin the Q-tip into the wheel bore. Keep spinning it back and forth. Pull the Q-Tip out after a few minutes and it will shine bright inside.

NICE JEEP!

 

[TRE]

I think you do more damage to the wheel tread on treadmill than it does good burnishing the graphite in the wheel bore

 

[Kinser Racing]

DO NOT USE A TREADMILL!!! You'll waste your wheels. /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif

 

[BulldogRacing]

Tread mill is like sand paper, just fall on one as you are running.

 

[davet]

A 150 lb person falling onto an already spinning track is bad just like airplane wheels hitting the runway upon landing. The car is only 5 oz at most and starts out with the belt. I just went down and spun the wheels on my boy's tank which was run up to full speed (7 mph) several times before the Pack race 3 yrs ago. Each time getting more graphite. Each run was 5 -10 seconds with maybe 1/2 second at 7 mph.

This tank has been sitting since Districts 3 yrs ago. It's been moved and jostled around and played with many times over the years. No additional graphite has ever been added. Each wheel just ran 18-20 seconds. The outsides of the wheels look good. I see no sign of them being sandpapered.

Maybe there are better ways to do it but this worked for us.

 

[BulldogRacing]

I convinced my wife it was bad by falling down and causing road rash. She never nags me to get on that dang thing, I use it as a paint stand now,

 

[B_Regal Racing]

DO NOT USE A TREADMILL!!! You'll waste your wheels. /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif

Now you tell me. I just order a treadmill for tuning...

 

[davet]

I convinced my wife it was bad by falling down and causing road rash. She never nags me to get on that dang thing, I use it as a paint stand now,

Ours was just something else for me to dust when my wife told me to clean the house. It's gone now. Less time dusting, more time tinkering.

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

DO NOT USE A TREADMILL!!! You'll waste your wheels. /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif

Chris speaks the truth... A day I'll never forget...

Also, it's very possible to get a 20 sec plus spin time with stock wheels. We had to use stock wheels this year and got very good spin off them with a proper prep job.

 

[davet]

DO NOT USE A TREADMILL!!! You'll waste your wheels. /images/boards/smilies/wave.gif

Chris speaks the truth... A day I'll never forget...

Also, it's very possible to get a 20 sec plus spin time with stock wheels. We had to use stock wheels this year and got very good spin off them with a proper prep job.

Our tank had 37 seconds at the time of the Pack race with stock wheels and stock axles. 18-20 seconds 3 yrs later with no graphite added.