Wooden Track, Broken Axle Slot, “Cheating”, Post-race Inspection, this race had it all.....

CivilWarTalk

Council Champion
Pro Racer
Mar 22, 2015
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West Virginia
Ordeal at Council Pinewood Derby

We placed 1st and 2nd overall at our district race, and our cars were impounded to be raced at the Council race.

Wow, what a race. And that's not the good kind of wow either....

So, to begin with, we were told at the district derby that the Council race was scheduled for 2pm, but I can tell you that I had read the Council newsletter, and the district running the event was planning to run their district race on the same day in advance. Reading their notes I could see that their final race for the day wouldn't even start till 2:30pm, and that they had the Council race scheduled for 4pm.

So I had a feeling when I arrived at 1:40pm that there would be a long wait before we raced, and I was right. We hit the road and got some lunch for the five of us, and planned to return about 2:30pm. No big deal....

We get back and one of the other dads from our districts warns me that the volunteers running the race wouldn't let them re-graphite their cars in advance of the race. Apparently a group of parents got upset and started fighting with the volunteer officials and got that decision overturned. This all happened before we returned.

My boys and I got our cars out from impound, and the wheels all had a serious "post office tune" the wheels had all kind of gap issues and none of my front bent axles were how I left them after districts. No matter, I cleaned the treads, reset the gaps and front alignment, made sure I still had 4 on the floor and we turned the cars back in.

Now a bad feeling creeps into my head. I was recently asked, do I trust these officials with my boys impounded car. I did, right up until that moment. Those cars were perfect when they left districts, and I packed them up pretty good to send them here. Did someone open my boxes and tamper with my cars, or inspect them without my knowledge? Doubts swirl in my head....

Race time, now I have never seen this done before, but they handed the 19 boys in the race their cars, and they each found a chair near the track and just held their car until they were called to race. I didn't know I needed to teach my boys how to sit still and hold their cars for 40 minutes during a race, but that's how they did it.

But then it was time to do the pledge and scout law and such and wouldn't you know it my boy who is a Bear manages to drop his car on the ground. It makes a loud crack noise when it hits. My wife tells me it wasn't his car but I saw him reach down and pick it up. He confesses after the race it was him, he bumped the car when he brought his hand down.

Lecture time by the officials. I thought this was a race? We are told that the district inspections let a lot of illegal cars are in the race, that the guy who is taking over running the Council races and overseeing the districts will be making major changes to weed out the "cheaters"... That last year's winning car shouldn't have been legal, and that some of this year's cars don't meet his standard of a legal car.... He's not looking at me, but I'm sure he's talking about my cars.

Lecture over, the race begins... My boys do well, it's a small 4 lane wood track, and they are finishing most races in first place. I see they have a pillow at the end of the stop section. Nice.

Halfway into the 40 heat race my Tiger son brings me his broken car, the wheel and axle fell out, and I can see the right rear axle slot is cracked wide open, but the silver tape under the car kept the splinters from getting lost. Superglue to the rescue!

I blow off the axle, the wheel and re-mate the set. I get the crack fixed and glued, and add a dab of glue to the tip of the axle nail. When I test the wheel I hear a ticking noise, nothing I can do about that. Elapsed repair time, less than one minute, i was sure the race was over for him....

It wasn't, his times didn't fall off, he was still winning his heats and I didn't see a big difference in his times either. Bullet dodged!

I talk to my Tiger about the broken wheel, the car fell out of the stop section after hitting the pillow and broke when it hit the floor. Awesome track guys!

The rest of the race is run, now it's time for results, I know there was at least one faster car than either of ours.

They start revealing cars 19th through 4th place, we aren't in the list, so I know both boys made it to the podium and will take home trophies.

It's at this point my wife takes our little one to the bathroom, great timing right? But when nature calls a 3 year old you don't argue. I'm glad my wife missed the next part.

Lecture time again. We are told the officials running the race are volunteers and should be applauded for their hard work. Then the guy running the race wants to inspect the winning cars after they are announced.

Results: My Bear finishes 3rd, and my Tiger is second.

The boys turn their cars back in, it's over, time to celebrate. Right? Wrong. Time to continue lecture and use my boy's cars as examples.... In front of 17 other boys and their families. My boys stood there with their new trophies and were lectured on how this was illegal, and that was not fair. Apparently we have unwritten rules about canted wheels and bent axles.

I say nothing, I'm surrounded by people who support this guy, this is his home turf. If I open my mouth, they'll all still think I'm a cheater and a jerk too...

I have a copy of the rules issued to me last December when we got our wood block. Our district requires axles be in slots, and 4 wheels touching, that's it. Nothing about canting or bending axles. In fact, at the district race the guy running the race was issuing bent axles to moms and dads who couldn't get 4 on the floor with their cars.

The race official looks at the winning car and declares that it's fully legal to the cheers of the crowd, but I'm skeptical, because I know my cars, and I know they haven't inspected for 4 wheels touching since the district race, and neither was that car.

When my wife returns and I tell her what she missed, she is livid. I mean like New Jersey livid. I'm so glad she didn't witness this in person, I'm imaging screaming, cars flying, a brawl....

So now my older boy is asking me if we cheated. He doesn't fully understand what happened, or why no-one clapped when he got his trophy.

My younger boy is just happy to have his trophy. Oh to be young and innocent again....

And my wife, let's just say it's going to take a while.....

Go ahead, rewrite the rules, Mr Official. I'll be back next year, and my boys will build faster cars again, "legal ones" if you will, and take home more of your trophies.

Time to hang a new shelf for the boys....
 
WOW!! That's why I always show up to a district race with a set of the rules.
smile
 
That is crazy! Unfortunately, I think our pack race Friday night tops that. I plan on writing a recap, but a quick summery includes....timing system not working again this year, parents not even remotely watching their children all night, "officials" who knew nothing of pwd, almost two fights after threats of physical harm, a punk trouble maker kid destroying my sons Pack winning car after the race, and now I think we are being kicked out of Scouts at all levels.....good times
 
Wow...just...wow...

I keep hearing so many stories of vindictive, wrongheaded officials at the Scout level. This is utterly crazy, and bad for the hobby.

Looking forward to your writeup, Gtdhw.
 
Rocket car said:
WOW!! That's why I always show up to a district race with a set of the rules.

Yeah, I had my rules set at the ready if they tried to DQ us. I didn't want to publicly raise a stink after the race. A scout is Friendly, Courteous, and Kind. That guy wasn't any of those things.

No, I'm raising a stink today, behind the scenes.

I wrote the current Council Chairman and the current District Chairman about our experience. If the guy had a problem with my cars he could have brought it up to me prior to the race privately. I would have rather withdrawn from the race than put my kids through this guys wringer. He never should have done that in front of any kids, mine or otherwise.

It wasn't just my kid's cars either, I think they were trying to scold the parents arguing the no applying graphite rule.

The guy running the race was a real genius....

He was using the typical software you run with these tracks, and the thing is taking each run and averaging them together to come up with a ranking. So we were watching some of the earlier runs in the District Race, and every time there was a tie during a heat, he would cancel the results and re-run the heat. It's scored on a average of 8 runs per car. Ties happen, I don't know what he thought he was accomplishing by re-running the heat.... If my kid ran a fast heat but he tied with another car, and they re-ran the heat and my kids car was slower, I'd be very angry. I wouldn't re-run any cars unless there was a tie in the results at the end of the race. But that's just me.

Later, he says that canting the wheels causes less friction between the tire tread and the track. I told him, he's partly right about the friction, but completely wrong about where the friction comes from or why it makes the car faster. He ignored that comment.

The guy has a book of matches and I swear he's going to burn them all.
 
CivilWarTalk said:
I wouldn't re-run any cars unless there was a tie in the results at the end of the race. But that's just me.

It sounds like the guy running the race barely knows how the software works. The chance of a tie at the scout level is very rare. The only time I rerun a heat is in the event of a collision and then we only rerun the affected cars.

That tank car is awesome!
 
This is why Socker Boppers should be included in each pinewood derby box...

If there is a problem... blow up the socker boppers, slip them on and have it out... problem solved... HAHAHA

(Just so it is done properly, the car is for the kid, the socker boppers are for the parents...)

 
First off, congrats to both of your boys CWT! My son is in the same council (different district) as yours and I complimented your Tiger on his car during the race. He replied with a big smile. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif

Never have I seen quite an event as I did yesterday. My son is a Webelos 2 getting ready to crossover, so our intention was to go and enjoy his final race as a Cub Scout - win or lose. Ended up finishing in the top ten - not too bad for him dropping his car and having to build a new one just four hours before the Pack race. Overall, the top 19 council places were all within four hundredths of a second - exciting racing and pretty good for a Cub race if you ask me! Oh, and the guy next to me asked why there was a rerun for the tie, citing that the race software would take care of that with the averaging, and he said "that's the way our district has always done it". I rolled my eyes in my mind and figured that would be the answer as to why we were using that old beat-up wooden track instead of the council's 49' BestTrack with/elec start.

Wow, the race was something for sure. I knew it was going to be bad when the guy volunteering at check-in was trying to pick a fight with a lady about the start time of the race and even threatening to call the police and have her removed. All unprovoked and just one simple question by her as she had to leave town for business. Geesh. I’m glad I missed the graphite discussion.

As for the guy running the race, he's a real handful (really biting my tongue here) and my son and I have a history with him. When I saw his son finish 10th overall, I knew there would be verbal retaliation. My son has been the council champion the past two pinewood derbies and he has been accused of cheating by this guy every year. (He even accused 'last year's winner' of illegal parts twice on the PA system yesterday - thankfully not by my son's name) Two years ago he accused us of cheating - in front of my son. Yeah, I was pissed. I offered for him to take the car apart (rip the wheels off, inspect them, the axles, weight it, whatever he wanted to do) and tell me what was illegal about it - to which he just ignored me and walked away. The outgoing pinewood chairman this year (who is a very upstanding guy in my opinion) apologized for the incident and talked to him about not making accusations in the future. Obviously, that lesson did not resonate with Mr. Official. Since that first incident, I just ignore the guy year after year.

Hopefully your older son isn't too beat-up by the situation. I know exactly what this is like as I had the same questions, tears, and desire to 'just give the stupid trophy back' two years ago from my son. I cringed when I heard Mr. Official was taking over the Derby next year. It's funny that you said that you would "be back next year, and my boys will build faster cars again, "legal ones" if you will, and take home more of your trophies." as I said that same thing to my son as we were pulling out of the parking lot yesterday. It's a shame that my boy is aging out of cubs as nothing would make me happier. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif Mr. Official is very Pro his district and plays the marytr card when he explains how their district rules are enforced much more closely than other districts.

This guy is a maniac and knows just enough to make himself dangerous. My thought is simple - if a car passes inspection, no more questions are asked - no accusations are made. Period. Make sensible rules that are easily enforceable across all of our districts. If the rules aren't enforced the same across the board, it our fault as leaders - not a fault of the boys.

When those boys stood up there holding their trophies and he ridiculed their cars two feet in front of them, my heart sank for them. I walked out of the building in the middle of his rant and went home - covering my uniform with my jacket. Behavior like this is bad the boys, bad for their most enjoyable event of the year, bad for our council, and bad for Scouting. Driving home I was kicking myself for not recording his rant with my phone. When we talk about overzealous pinewood derby guys on this forum, this guy is the poster child for sure. /images/boards/smilies/smile.gif
 
I agree BULLDOG!! I will be taking my wood badge class in April.. And hopefully then I can educate people in our council on pinewood derby rules. So this kind of stuff stops happening.. Sounds like he is not adhering to the scout oath or law! My sons have won their respective classes 3 yrs now and yes we have been given the STINK eye quite often. Tell your sons to keep their heads high. And CONGRATULATIONS on their wins.
 
They sure don't like it when you win big. They notice. That's what the scouts I help did last year with graphite, lead weight, and all bent axles. The race was supposed to be yesterday but it got delayed with about a weeks notice. They then told the boys they were going to quiz them about how they built their cars. No problem there, yet. But...

My Box Stock actually belongs to one of them who just crossed over and, according to their rules, he has to race the parents instead. It's not fair to tell him he has to beat the parents with a car he made with no help.

So, "Ghetto Superstar" is now "Alpha Beast" with 92x axles and Mid America wheels. I might even add some wheel covers, you know, just to rub it in by an extra half inch. Even on a bad day, he is going to wipe the floor with them! Lol

I will make sure to get video to share.
 
Chump Change, you should just take a quarter inch slab of wood weighted and drilled then prep the stock wheels and axles and no fenders and show them how it breaks 3 seconds.
 
That is s crazy experience. Scouting is filled with plenty of great people. However, I think done become a little too self righteous and really make it intolerable and unbearable for the rat of us.

Rocket car said:
WOW!! That's why I always show up to a district race with a set of the rules.
smile

We didn't start building until we had the rules in hand. I had rules in hand at the pack and district race. Our pack looked at the weight and size, but nothing else. Wheels received plenty of scrutiny at districts.
 
CNC Racing said:
Wow, the race was something for sure.

Wow, CNC, thanks so much for your comments. Congrats to your kid for his Top 10 performance! That's awesome he built the car at the last minute and did so well.

It took a day, but both boys are happy about the race results. We got them dressed up to do photos with their trophies for the grandparents. That was the first time I saw my Bear smile since the race, and when we cleaned up and got their trophies on the shelf in their room, they were excited, so I think we made their day.

We had to explain to them that it was only a race, and building the cars was a great learning experience for them. They got to learn about power tools, and how to work with them. They learned a lot about physics that school hasn't begun to teach, and they asked a lot of great questions, so I think they even learned practical new skills.

I also used the guy's lecture's as an example for the boys on how not to behave. I told them that being Friendly, Courteous, and Kind are very important scouting skills, and that man didn't follow any of those laws in his rant, but sometimes people can be like that, and it's best to just ignore them.

I also told the boys that the Cub Scout motto is "Do Your Best" and that's exactly what we did. Everything else is just chaff.

I've never dealt with this guy before. I can tell you my wife wanted to punch him when we were in the car going home.

I did have the thought in my head to not accept the trophies, but that would have devastated the kids, especially my tiger, he couldn't believe he had a faster car than his brother. His brother beat him in Pack and at District, and he had just come to accept he would finish behind his brother, so he was absolutely beaming when he finished a spot ahead of his brother.

I'm interested to hear about the rules changes this guy wants. Surprisingly I agree with him on one issue, if we are going to run a council race, we should have all districts running under the same rules. However, based on his rants, I'm sure he's going to implement rules that are unenforceable at the Pack level. He's going to make a lot of upset kids and parents.

He made it sound like building a fast car is a sin of some kind. Using his logic, the council should issue every kid the same pre-built car at the race, and whoever wins just got the lucky fast car.

You know what, we could make this really easy, don't even pull the track out, just have the kids flip coins to see who won the heat. That will level the playing field!

I'm going to email the "guy" in question today to politely ask for a copy of the race results. We will see if he feels compelled to say anything....