3 A.M. thoughts

[mike-E]

wheel weights are illegal in basx anyway

I know. Hence my first post in the thread. I was just pointing out that sometimes it's not that a guy is out-classed, just priced-out of the game. I feel as though I've got a pretty good grasp on the subtle concepts that make a world of difference for those few thousands of a second. And I know for a fact that a lead and graphite car hitting sub3's is no easy feat for just about any racer. It took close to 20 builds before hitting that mark. I used to watch the races regularly, and one car stood out to me as being different and had me scratching my head. All I remember is it was white and blue and had at least an 1/8" of body sticking out behind the back wheels.
Does anyone recall who that was, and any idea how he did it?

 

[Charles Studer]

Im not quiet following you....how did he do what?
Just my opinion...as time advances....technology does as well....the days of lead are over. The days of graphite, gone. If a builder has the talent then building a fast car within the limits of the tech they possess if easy yet only for novelty....to COMPETE in the classes we must build out to maximize speed within each classes rule set....which requires tech. Do or Do not...there is no try. I will gladly build to a lead and graphite only box stock race should one become available. Till then I my friend am stuck trying to make oil and tungsten sing to the tune of mirror polished jigged 93s inside ice polished and sealed coned 1.6s

 

[recraig]

I know. Hence my first post in the thread. I was just pointing out that sometimes it's not that a guy is out-classed, just priced-out of the game. I feel as though I've got a pretty good grasp on the subtle concepts that make a world of difference for those few thousands of a second. And I know for a fact that a lead and graphite car hitting sub3's is no easy feat for just about any racer. It took close to 20 builds before hitting that mark. I used to watch the races regularly, and one car stood out to me as being different and had me scratching my head. All I remember is it was white and blue and had at least an 1/8" of body sticking out behind the back wheels.
Does anyone recall who that was, and any idea how he did it?

Well the way to show everyone that you are the man is to send in the cars ...

 

[Charles Studer]

+1

I've sent needle cars in years after the class was gone just to get good times....self satisfaction. ..not competitive

 

[mike-E]

Im not quiet following you....how did he do what?
Just my opinion...as time advances....technology does as well....the days of lead are over. The days of graphite, gone. If a builder has the talent then building a fast car within the limits of the tech they possess if easy yet only for novelty....to COMPETE in the classes we must build out to maximize speed within each classes rule set....which requires tech. Do or Do not...there is no try. I will gladly build to a lead and graphite only box stock race should one become available. Till then I my friend am stuck trying to make oil and tungsten sing to the tune of mirror polished jigged 93s inside ice polished and sealed coned 1.6s

Like I said, he had at least an 1/8" of body sticking out behind the back wheels. Probably closer to 3/16". Any builder who reads this will know that's far from optimum, considering every other car winning races has the wheels as far back as possible. Sure wish I could remember the racers name or find that particular race video. Spent hours studying that car's picture and watching it run.
I was just trying to iterate that a fast car could be built extremely cheap with lead and awana axles as long as wheel weights were permitted. (At least for me).
I would be willing to go tungsten if I could get the high % weight plates in the dimensions I know would be competitive.
Do you agree that a car with a 10% thinner body than average, and tungsten actually forming the chassis rear end would be a force to reckon with? My plan would be to epoxy the plates in with an 1/8" wide axle strip only remaining connected to the main chassis on the non-dfw side. Drill the axle holes in a jig after gluing up the weights.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

Weight is the single most expensive item in a car if it is tungsten. There really is no way to get the weight where you want it using lead or some other material. That being said, the tungsten 1/4" cubes are by far the best choice for weight and can be customized to suit almost any application while keeping the car as thin as it can be. Better yet, if you do not epoxy the cubes in the car and just use tape, you can re-use the weight next year without destroying the car. I do not know of a league racer that epoxies weight in a car...

 

[Charles Studer]

I guess so.... that is sort of typical I thought. I am going to reread.......I mean your about 50% my typical axle allowance but the dynamics of the car are very fluid in my opinion....the pure science yes....weight all the way back, aggressive balancing, light nose, and tuned to ride the lightning.....but I feel that the art of it all is how the racer builds within his or her own perameters and makes the magic happen. I believe that the tune can make up for a slightly dispersed weight package...but I get what you mean...

 

[mike-E]

I guess so.... that is sort of typical I thought. I am going to reread.......I mean your about 50% my typical axle allowance but the dynamics of the car are very fluid in my opinion....the pure science yes....weight all the way back, aggressive balancing, light nose, and tuned to ride the lightning.....but I feel that the art of it all is how the racer builds within his or her own perameters and makes the magic happen. I believe that the tune can make up for a slightly dispersed weight package...but I get what you mean...

Ok after searching YouTube for an hour and a half I found the car and the race. The racer is Cash racing and he called the car trouble. After looking at it again the wheels are AT LEAST 3/8" forward of normal. Can ANYONE explain this?edit: skip to 19:57 to see the top view of the winning cars including first place. The wheels are EASILY 3/8" forward of the back of the car.

 

[TRE]

Its just scout wheel base the rears are 7/8 forward

 

[mike-E]

Weight is the single most expensive item in a car if it is tungsten. There really is no way to get the weight where you want it using lead or some other material. That being said, the tungsten 1/4" cubes are by far the best choice for weight and can be customized to suit almost any application while keeping the car as thin as it can be. Better yet, if you do not epoxy the cubes in the car and just use tape, you can re-use the weight next year without destroying the car. I do not know of a league racer that epoxies weight in a car...

Please see my post and explain how what Cash did in that race is possible. As far as I remember that is the only race that particular car was in.

 

[mike-E]

Its just scout wheel base the rears are 7/8 forward

I disagree. It's closer, or even over 1", and that doesn't explain how that set-up is competative over a 5/8 set up. There were GOOD builders in that race. Edit: his fastest run was the last and it was .008 faster than the next fastest racer in the race. I know how difficult it is to gain .008, and to have THAT big of an advantage with a setup like THAT is no "fluke". That was "different".

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

One thing to also think about is that is Cash Racing. He is a very experienced and his prep is top notch. He’s also the owner/operator of Association of Pinewood Racers aka APR, another great league with fast builders and his BASX is almost always the fastest. His cars are always one of the fastest on the track.
Great guy too.
But his skill and prep are why his car was so fast. No question about it.

 

[mike-E]

One thing to also think about is that is Cash Racing. He is a very experienced and his prep is top notch. He’s also the owner/operator of Association of Pinewood Racers aka APR, another great league with fast builders and his BASX is almost always the fastest. His cars are always one of the fastest on the track.
Great guy too.
But his skill and prep are why his car was so fast. No question about it.

Didn't realize he managed his own league. That still doesn't explain why he would put himself at a HUGE disadvantage to a 5/8" drill. And a perfect prep sure doesn't come close to explaining .008 of a second faster times than the next competitor with THE optimum setup and even a decent prep. Bearings wouldn't have given him that edge with a 1" forward drill.
Come on guys, it's been over two and a half years since that race, and a peon spectator like me is the only one who's scratched their head over it? I surely can't be the only one.

 

[B_Regal Racing]

Terry could make a 2 by 4 fast if he wanted to. He's absolutely a top racer...

Terry, John, Joel <-- a crazy amount of experience between those three!

 

[TRE]

Didn't realize he managed his own league. That still doesn't explain why he would put himself at a HUGE disadvantage to a 5/8" drill. And a perfect prep sure doesn't come close to explaining .008 of a second faster times than the next competitor with THE optimum setup and even a decent prep. Bearings wouldn't have given him that edge with a 1" forward drill.
Come on guys, it's been over two and a half years since that race, and a peon spectator like me is the only one who's scratched their head over it? I surely can't be the only one.

Moving the drill up 1/8 inch isnt that much of a difference

 

[Charles Studer]

Ok....I will explain it. This is just my take on the situation. I will do this myself. It is a 18 pack....3 row of 6 1/4" tungsten behind the rear axle. The more weight higher up dramatically offsets any loss of drive by moving the rears forward. The dominant front is probably raised about 7/32" and bent to an 8° utilizing any where from 14" to 20" of steer. It is more than likely a prototype he was working and he just like others decided....though pretty cool....not really that effective, verified by those times no longef holding NPWDRL track records for BASX class which is noe 2.9492 secs last I checked. Fun car. Cool tech. Defunct speed. Easily knocked out of tune. Hard to tune in the first place. Why bother. Just my guess. Please someone jump in here and verify or expound.

 

[mike-E]

Moving the drill up 1/8 inch isnt that much of a difference

How far are those axle holes drilled from the back TRE?

 

[TRE]

7/8 i think but not sure

 

[Jimmy & his 2 Kids]

Terry has helped many a racer squeak out more speed from optimum set ups. He truly has that other worldly level of understanding of how these seemingly simple yet really complex little 7” pieces of wood on wheels react to the finest and smallest amount of tuning.
Simple complexity... too early on a Monday to be thinking about that right now. Lol
And yes... he could run sub 3.0 with a 2x4!

 

[Mojo Racing]

Mike,

You are looking at a race that is almost 3 years old... things have come a LONG way since then

You are getting hung up on one thing when so much more has changed.


Don't let the little things get you stuck.