Are washers, graphite pads... worth it?

[John-newbie11]

These sound like a no-brainer but am curious if they are as good/easy as they sound.

Our rules state that bearings, washers and bushings applied to the wheels are prohibited. So graphite pads would be fine. But I assume also washers are fine as I wouldn't be applying them to the wheels, right?

 

[Castoro Racing]

These sound like a no-brainer but am curious if they are as good/easy as they sound.

Our rules state that bearings, washers and bushings applied to the wheels are prohibited. So graphite pads would be fine. But I assume also washers are fine as I wouldn't be applying them to the wheels, right?

I would assume they do not want the washer to be used to reduce friction in any way. Since that would be the case I doubt they would allow washers or graphite pads. Not sure if graphite pads are effective, I would doubt it. There are definitely better ways to reduce friction where the hub touches the body which are legal. You can sand that are and run in graphite (if graphite is the only lube allowed). Some use CA glue or teflon nail polish in that area and sand and rub graphite. If you do a search you will come up with several ways to do this within your rule set.

 

[John-newbie11]

I would assume they do not want the washer to be used to reduce friction in any way. Since that would be the case I doubt they would allow washers or graphite pads. Not sure if graphite pads are effective, I would doubt it. There are definitely better ways to reduce friction where the hub touches the body which are legal. You can sand that are and run in graphite (if graphite is the only lube allowed). Some use CA glue or teflon nail polish in that area and sand and rub graphite. If you do a search you will come up with several ways to do this within your rule set.

Great, thank you!

 

[Dizzy]

I did the super glue with graphite, seemed to be very slick. I had always tried to rub graphite into the side of the car in the past and this was much better.

 

[John-newbie11]

I did the super glue with graphite, seemed to be very slick. I had always tried to rub graphite into the side of the car in the past and this was much better.

Do you just put a very thin layer of super glue and then sprinkle graphite on it? And once it dries sand it down a bit and apply more graphite?

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

Well the washers in question would be mounted to the body around the axle hole....so they wouldn't be mounted to the wheel.....should be legal.

 

[Castoro Racing]

Well the washers in question would be mounted to the body around the axle hole....so they wouldn't be mounted to the wheel.....should be legal.

I am thinking that whoever wrote or enforces the rule may not read it literally. You can always ask to clarify.

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

Humnnn....if they don't mean it literally then why bother writing rules in paper?? If rules only state mounted to wheel then there is a valid argument for the legality of washers mounted to the body.

 

[Castoro Racing]

Humnnn....if they don't mean it literally then why bother writing rules in paper?? If rules only state mounted to wheel then there is a valid argument for the legality of washers mounted to the body.

I would agree with you, but I dont think that everyone puts that much thought in there rules. I'd rather clarify ahead of time. I don't want to have the conversation on check in what the rules were meant to be. We are going to the NYC race and I felt like a lawyer reading their rules as they are conflicting all over the place. Just saying better safe than sorry.

 

[Pinewood Outlaw]

Guess I need to post my draft of next years rules and ask for feedback and see if they are clear. Gonna do that now.

 

[John-newbie11]

Thanks all. I read it as being legal since it is attached to the car, but I'll confirm, or just not do it, and stick with sanding smooth and rubbing in graphite (or maybe trying the super glue tactic)

 

[Wolfram Racing]

Someones looking for Sally again.

 

[FDM]

I did the super glue with graphite, seemed to be very slick. I had always tried to rub graphite into the side of the car in the past and this was much better.

Which super glue you use for this? I have the thin, medium and normal stuff, which would work better for this. And how do you apply the graphite and superglue together?

 

[Dizzy]

Which super glue you use for this? I have the thin, medium and normal stuff, which would work better for this. And how do you apply the graphite and superglue together?

I used loctite liquid and just put a thin layer and let dry. After it was dry I sanded smooth and rubbed the graphite into it.

 

[John-newbie11]

I used loctite liquid and just put a thin layer and let dry. After it was dry I sanded smooth and rubbed the graphite into it.

Also, what exactly does the glue do, by the way? Does it just 'hold' the graphite better (vs. rubbing it directly into the wood)? I was thinking people were applying the graphite to the wet glue/mixing it together, which would definitely hold the graphite well. But if you're just applying it, sanding it, and then rubbing in graphite, what's the advantage...?

 

[Dizzy]

Also, what exactly does the glue do, by the way? Does it just 'hold' the graphite better (vs. rubbing it directly into the wood)? I was thinking people were applying the graphite to the wet glue/mixing it together, which would definitely hold the graphite well. But if you're just applying it, sanding it, and then rubbing in graphite, what's the advantage...?

When the glue dries it will be very hard, if you could use a delrin washer that would be better but if not allowed then it will be harder than the paint or bare wood.

 

[Castoro Racing]

Also, what exactly does the glue do, by the way? Does it just 'hold' the graphite better (vs. rubbing it directly into the wood)? I was thinking people were applying the graphite to the wet glue/mixing it together, which would definitely hold the graphite well. But if you're just applying it, sanding it, and then rubbing in graphite, what's the advantage...?

The glue is harder than the bare wood and more slippery/less friction. Rubbing graphite will embed the graphite in the glue which theoretically will cause less friction. I have also read a suggestion from John to mix the glue and graphite.

 

[FDM]

The glue is harder than the bare wood and more slippery/less friction. Rubbing graphite will embed the graphite in the glue which theoretically will cause less friction. I have also read a suggestion from John to mix the glue and graphite.

Yes I was thinking of mixing the wet glue and graphite too, however I do remember that the working of graphite relies on it to be able to move between 2 surfaces and not being locked to one, I thought that was one of the reasons not to use axles that are coated with graphite. However if I were to run oil, I would prefer the graphite to be locked into the glue and not able to move into my wheel bores. Also I wonder how well the graphite will stick to the dried glue.

 

[Castoro Racing]

Yes I was thinking of mixing the wet glue and graphite too, however I do remember that the working of graphite relies on it to be able to move between 2 surfaces and not being locked to one, I thought that was one of the reasons not to use axles that are coated with graphite. However if I were to run oil, I would prefer the graphite to be locked into the glue and not able to move into my wheel bores. Also I wonder how well the graphite will stick to the dried glue.

Don't use graphite in anyway with oil. If you use glue as the "washer" the oil applied to the axle is all you need, graphite will slow you down.

I am not sure the theory behind mixing the glue and graphite maybe a pro can weigh in. I would guess the contact with the graphite has less friction than the glue, but I am guessing. If it was a suggestion from John I would say it's safe to assume it's a pretty good idea. I have used glue before and rubbed in the graphite, it seemed to stay embedded. At least you could visibly see a coat of graphite after rubbing and after a few runs.

 

[Castoro Racing]

http://www.pinewoodderbyonline.com/threads/stupid-questions.5823/#post-70232