OK, I am going to have to hire a lawyer to write the rules. ALL RULES HAVE BEEN UPDATED AND MODIFIED.
BASX Vote NOW!
- Thread starter DerbyDad4Hire
- Start date
The up coming series is new, a fresh start, everyone is in the same position. I'm glad we got this all out before it started. It's looking like by popular vote most racers want them. Now here's the cool thing once this series is over we can evaluate and see if the top finishers are using the wheel weights, if it shows that you have to have them to be competitive than we can adjust. Evaluate the top 15 builder in the class and see if there is a unfair advantage. We can re-vote at the beginning of the next series. I think you will see that we are getting excited over nothing.
DerbyDad4Hire said:
Actually, all you had to do was read my post and try to understand where I was coming from.
I need to be frank because I'm rushed. You are slaughtering rules that have stood the test of time based on a false premise. If you want help, I'm willing to help.
Test of time? Most all other leagues have failed because of not adapting to thoughts and inovation. Why the NPWDRL is what it is, is because there is not 10 different classes with 10 different rule sets.But we adapt with the time, progression is GREAT!
LightninBoy said:
I think it is plenty fine to discuss the merits of this type of weight and what the BASX class should be. I definitely don't want to see it split up even more. When it was first created to replace novice I questioned why there was the no fender rule but I thought, "what the hell. one less thing to worry about." I consider the league a good start for figuring out the basics, get your axles holes drilled right, your axles prepped, and wheel bores prepped. The biggest factor differentiating all the classes is the wheels themselves and their weight. The BASX 2.4g weight allows for the most minimal modifications to eliminate the imperfections in the wheels and is easier to enforce then trying to force everyone to use out of the box wheels especially since the BSA wheels have so many imperfections.
As for cost of parts tungsten is pretty spendy anyway. The wheel weights are even higher priced / oz then the more common tungsten pieces. Not being mass produced like the cubes I can understand why though. Like others have said you can make a comparable weight out of steel washers, albeit a lighter version, it will still yield the majority of the benefits that this method of weighting may have. I also think it can be easily adapted at the scout level and which is also a factor that I personally would like to see the BASX class to try to resemble.
As for the rules that were set for the BASX before these weights were announced I do feel that they kind of got by on a loop hole. The rules stated that the body had to be no wider then 1.75". The wheels and axles being exempt. The weights kind of take advantage of being added to the body where the wheels encompassed. I can see how they were allowed anyway since the whole purpose of that body width rule was mainly to not allow fenders or fender like body covers.
I can see how this could make things uneven for those that took the rules at face value and didn't think it was allowed to tuck weights in the wheel area. Now that the rules have been updated to make sure that everyone is aware and it is an even playing field I am fine with allowing the weights.
There are always going to be little things that will push the limits and interpretations of the rules. I am glad that John has taken the time to allowed everyone to air their comments. It doesn't have to get hostile or devolve into an argument just because there is a difference of opinion. I will be fine with whatever John decides when all thing are final. I am confident in John taking action if something becomes un-balanced going forward.
As for cost of parts tungsten is pretty spendy anyway. The wheel weights are even higher priced / oz then the more common tungsten pieces. Not being mass produced like the cubes I can understand why though. Like others have said you can make a comparable weight out of steel washers, albeit a lighter version, it will still yield the majority of the benefits that this method of weighting may have. I also think it can be easily adapted at the scout level and which is also a factor that I personally would like to see the BASX class to try to resemble.
As for the rules that were set for the BASX before these weights were announced I do feel that they kind of got by on a loop hole. The rules stated that the body had to be no wider then 1.75". The wheels and axles being exempt. The weights kind of take advantage of being added to the body where the wheels encompassed. I can see how they were allowed anyway since the whole purpose of that body width rule was mainly to not allow fenders or fender like body covers.
I can see how this could make things uneven for those that took the rules at face value and didn't think it was allowed to tuck weights in the wheel area. Now that the rules have been updated to make sure that everyone is aware and it is an even playing field I am fine with allowing the weights.
There are always going to be little things that will push the limits and interpretations of the rules. I am glad that John has taken the time to allowed everyone to air their comments. It doesn't have to get hostile or devolve into an argument just because there is a difference of opinion. I will be fine with whatever John decides when all thing are final. I am confident in John taking action if something becomes un-balanced going forward.
Quicktimederby said:
John is not adapting the rules due to an innovation, he is adapting the rules based on a premise that wheels and axles aren't subject to the car body dimension rules. That premise is false.
I'm trying to help here. Good rules are the foundation of a good league and I want this league to be successful. If "some people" would just stop getting so defensive and *listen* then this whole issue could have been resolved a long time ago.
- Nov 24, 2011
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LightninBoy said:
If the wheels and axle are subject to the body dimension rules, all BASX cars would be DQ'd. None of them will meet the 1 3/4" body dimensions, nor could they.
Kinser Racing said:
Ok, I'll put it this way.
You can clutch on to the notion that wheel and axles (and weight) are not subject to the car body dimension rules and thus have to change the rules in every other existing class to deal with the implications of that interpretation (e.g. preventing wheels from hanging over 7" and many other changes John was forced to make today and he didn't get them all).
Or you can admit that the wheels and axles are subject to the car body dimension rules and simply change the BASX width rules back to 2 3/4 while keeping the new ALL CAPS part of the BASX rules.
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OK guys-
Enough is enough!!
But first---
this will be very, very lengthy, detailed and extremely exhaustive but here is my technical take and my personal opinions on it...
Just kidding
Let's race!!!
Enough is enough!!
But first---
this will be very, very lengthy, detailed and extremely exhaustive but here is my technical take and my personal opinions on it...
Just kidding
One more question on something I didn't catch...were these already run in the BASX class at Nationals?
The times in the BASX finals seemed evenly spaced out with no obvious advantage if someone was running them. It seems the new weights are creating a lot of hype without the proof of a large advantage? I'm changing my mind on these, I just didn't want to have to build all new cars in the next two weeks...Run 'em if you got 'em!
Race on guys!...by the way, if you run these weights on any of your cars, put a big red "X" on there so us proxy racers can keep an eye on them! /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif
The times in the BASX finals seemed evenly spaced out with no obvious advantage if someone was running them. It seems the new weights are creating a lot of hype without the proof of a large advantage? I'm changing my mind on these, I just didn't want to have to build all new cars in the next two weeks...Run 'em if you got 'em!
Race on guys!...by the way, if you run these weights on any of your cars, put a big red "X" on there so us proxy racers can keep an eye on them! /images/boards/smilies/thumb.gif
Alright here is my 2 cents on this subject. After attending the Nationals and witnessing several builders that had the wheel weights. Did any of these builders perform any better than builders that had cube weights? Yes, ONLY ONE and that was Minions he was smoking fast from the get go. The other builders that had wheel weights did not perform any better than cube weighted cars. To all the builders that had them just want to let you know I am not being negative towards you all. I am just stating what I saw.
I haven't ran this class yet and to be honest I am still on the fence. I was under the impression that BASX was going to be for new builders so that is why I haven't done anything yet. I know the May race was the introduction of the class and to see how much participation it would attract. I know at the Nationals there was 2 dads and sons that raced in the BASX class and they where new to the league. One father and son was from Utah and the other father and son where from California. They where the only 2 new builders that participated I know of. If we keep making a mockery of this subject we are going to lose new builders that might be interested in joining our league and also veteran builders that don't want to spend the extra money or time fit their cars with wheel weights.
John, if you need a lawyer I have one if you need it. He works for the Attorney General of Alabama.
I haven't ran this class yet and to be honest I am still on the fence. I was under the impression that BASX was going to be for new builders so that is why I haven't done anything yet. I know the May race was the introduction of the class and to see how much participation it would attract. I know at the Nationals there was 2 dads and sons that raced in the BASX class and they where new to the league. One father and son was from Utah and the other father and son where from California. They where the only 2 new builders that participated I know of. If we keep making a mockery of this subject we are going to lose new builders that might be interested in joining our league and also veteran builders that don't want to spend the extra money or time fit their cars with wheel weights.
John, if you need a lawyer I have one if you need it. He works for the Attorney General of Alabama.
Corvid at least your extremely open minded about the whole thing! /images/boards/smilies/smile.gifCorvid Racing said:OK guys-
Enough is enough!!
But first---
this will be very, very lengthy, detailed and extremely exhaustive but here is my technical take and my personal opinions on it...
Just kiddingLet's race!!!
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AC Designs said:
Minions is a great builder. I have watched him over the past year and I have been very impressed with his performance. You can try all the latest and greatest stuff, but if you don't have the BASX stuff under your belt...........it won't do you much good. What Minions did a few weeks ago was nothing short of incredible. He said it was luck........trust me, he was being modest. Some kids learn to walk at an early age, some later on. Minions learned to walk at 6 months old. The key is to not give up, ask a lot of questions, and listen when a guy like Minions tells you something.
I agree that Minions is a great builder and I am not taking that away from him. What he did a few weeks back was totally awesome. I was stating that everybody else that used them didn't do so hot. Whether it was prep or something else I don't know. I don't think it was luck either. Like I said he showed up Friday morning and was fast from the get go. He ran a couple of times and then packed upped and left. Came back Saturday and kicked every bodies tail. It was great setting there watching him smile the whole time.
But back to the original topic. I don't have a dog in this fight so I was just observing. Take it for what it is.
But back to the original topic. I don't have a dog in this fight so I was just observing. Take it for what it is.
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AC Designs said:
I am not sure Minions ever said his winning cars had the wheel weights in them or not. I believe he said some of his cars had them and some did not. /images/boards/smilies/sneaky.gif
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