Building a scout car outside of the Northern Star Council

[LightninBoy]

I'm helping my sister build some cars for her kids. So I'm getting a taste of building a car under ridiculously strict and unenforceable rules. I copied the main rules below.

The one I'd like to get some forum thought on is this:

10. The wheelbase (distance between front and rear axles) may not be changed. You must use the axle grooves precut in the block.

So, from this I should be ok to cut a bit from the rear of the block and glue it on to the front to move the wheels further back while keeping the distance between the front and rears the same.

Also, I'm thinking this rule doesn't prevent me from drilling a canted hole into the groove as I'm still "using the groove".

Does that seem reasonable - or am I pushing too much with either of these?

The RULES ===============================

All cars must be built using the kit provided, this includes the Pinewood block, axles, and wheels. With the exception of decorative and construction items (weights, glue, lubricants, finishing materials, artistic
additions), only materials from the official kit may be used!
3. Each car must pass inspection.
4. The width of the car shall not exceed 2-1/2 inches.
5. The length of the car shall not exceed 7 inches.
6. Minimum width between wheels shall be 1 ¾” so the car will clear the center guide strip.
7. Minimum clearance between the bottom of the car and the bottom of the wheels shall be 3/8” so the car will
clear the center guide strip. It is not necessary for the weights to be inset on the bottom of the car as the
weights will clear the track.
8. Maximum height no taller than 5”, so car will clear timing gates.
9. The weight of the cars shall not exceed 5 ounces (141.7 grams) according to the official weigh-in scale.
10. The wheelbase (distance between front and rear axles) may not be changed. You must use the axle grooves
precut in the block.
11. All cars will be weighed on the official digital scale. This will be available at the construction workshops.
12. Axles may be polished. Solid (pass through) axles are prohibited. No other modification to the axles is
allowed. Grooved axles are prohibited. Cars that come to check-in with wheels already installed may be
subject to closer examination.
13. Wheels may be lightly sanded to remove the mold projection on the tread. This light sanding is the only
wheel modification allowed. Wheels that have been beveled, tapered thin, sanded, or lathe turned will not
be acceptable.
14. Wheel bearings, washers and bushings are prohibited.
15. The car cannot ride on springs.
16. Only dry lubricant is permitted! Nothing like oil, shoe polish or other lubricants! Lubrication will be
available and done at check – in.

 

[Vitamin K]

I would only do the "material relocation" thing if I had a chance to ask the race official about it. I think it's perfectly in line with the rules, but you don't want some uninformed inspector rejecting your hard work at the 11th hour.

I think for the slots, I would go with the 'holes drilled at the top of the slots' technique. Maybe with a little epoxy in there first to shore them up before drilling.

 

[txchemist]

This combination might be trouble

Cars that come to check-in with wheels already installed may be
subject to closer examination.

Only dry lubricant is permitted! Nothing like oil, shoe polish or other lubricants! Lubrication will be
available and done at check – in.

You will NOT get through this with a bent axle all tuned.
The rules are contradictory- If they only want graphite, they should say so- to first say dry lube, and then outlaw shoe polish or other lubricants can give a way to disqualify many other dry lubes. I would buy a plug'n'play, or let the Cub set the drift with straight axles and a twist of the wood then glue back together

http://www.pinewoodderbyonline.com/post/drift-adjustment-for-cubs-7000286?highlight=cub&pid=1283633571

 

[CivilWarTalk]

Ugg, this is nearly same rule set my son's council uses, although we are allowed to use any lube.

I asked our district pad chairman about moving the wheelbase by chopping the rear and adding to the nose, he was cool with that. Hopefully yours will agree as well. Thinking about it, there's nothing in those rules about shortening the body or running with say a 6 and 1/2 inch long body, just don't modify or move the slots.

I haven't tried it before, but this year I plan to try the canted drill in the slot method for the rears.

Good luck with your build!

 

[HurriCrane Racing]

Yeah, this pretty much sucks! I wish all the councils had the same rules as the North Star District.

 

[microbrush]

Are you planning to have your wheels off at check in? Looks like you can't even put a K-house groove in it.

 

[twistediron]

Rough rules there..set the steer and mark it some how so its repeatable no k groove needed then..my 2¢

 

[twistediron]

And of course predrill the rears!

 

[ngyoung]

Rough...I may be daring enough to just re-cut my own grooves after drilling if I can make them look like the original slots. I am OK with doing that because the quality control for the producer of the blocks is lower then my standards.

TBH though just polishing the axles and wheel bores as well as making it a rail rider will likely be enough to win the event. Anything else will just be icing on the cake. Prohibiting lathed wheels is funny too when they allow removing the mold projection marks on the tread. What's the difference in lightly sanding and lightly lathing? There haven't been mold marks on the treads for a long time. The only mold marks on the wheels are in the double step.

 

[Pinewoodguy]

I was told that the reasoning behind the groove use only was so they can see the nail tips to verify that you are using nail axles. Also your lucky. .. your rules mention nothing about how many wheel must touch the track.

 

[mxquad]

LB - I just went through this for a scout race 2 days ago. A race where the scout leader wrote the rules himself EXTREMELY strict, yet nobody tech inspects his car and he has 2 cars that dominate EVERY year.....

So, with that challenge I helped a buddy using my knowledge learned from this forum and building cars and racing at the pro level at NPWDRL.

We used a 1/4" thick balsa filled body and drilled the rear slots -3 cant and drilled the front slots straight, and glued polished side glides, and narrowed the front DFW side by 1/16". Used trued axles and trued wheels from a vendor, polished everything, waxed the bore and hubs both sides, bent the front DFW axle, Jigged the axles and applied the oil process. Applied vinyl to top & bottom, and used tungsten cubes.

The car ran 3 wheels and tuned to run 4" over 4 feet. It was tech inspected by 3 guys twice and passed.

I exposed what they DIDN't have in the rules and used my experience and tools to make it fast.

Race night, the first time our car beat the guy that dominates every year; he said that our car wasn't legal. Our car was consistent every run at 3.11 and the dominate guy's car was running 3.12 and started slowing down closer to the finals. At the end of the race our car took 1st place overall out of 30 cars, and the 2 cars the dominate guy finished 2nd and 3rd. I was helping grab cars for staging and the dominate guy didn't know I helped with the build of the fastest car, and he said he wanted "to stomp on it".

 

[TRE]

LB - I just went through this for a scout race 2 days ago. A race where the scout leader wrote the rules himself EXTREMELY strict, yet nobody tech inspects his car and he has 2 cars that dominate EVERY year.....

So, with that challenge I helped a buddy using my knowledge learned from this forum and building cars and racing at the pro level at NPWDRL.

We used a 1/4" thick balsa filled body and drilled the rear slots -3 cant and drilled the front slots straight, and glued polished side glides, and narrowed the front DFW side by 1/16". Used trued axles and trued wheels from a vendor, polished everything, waxed the bore and hubs both sides, bent the front DFW axle, Jigged the axles and applied the oil process. Applied vinyl to top & bottom, and used tungsten cubes.

The car ran 3 wheels and tuned to run 4" over 4 feet. It was tech inspected by 3 guys twice and passed.

I exposed what they DIDN't have in the rules and used my experience and tools to make it fast.

Race night, the first time our car beat the guy that dominates every year; he said that our car wasn't legal. Our car was consistent every run at 3.11 and the dominate guy's car was running 3.12 and started slowing down closer to the finals. At the end of the race our car took 1st place overall out of 30 cars, and the 2 cars the dominate guy finished 2nd and 3rd. I was helping grab cars for staging and the dominate guy didn't know I helped with the build of the fastest car, and he said he wanted "to stomp on it".

LOL..Thats great story

 

[BulldogRacing]

It's very satisfying to help someone and be a fly on the wall at the race. Under cover Brother. Great job, sounds like a tight race. Did you get a good look at the dudes cars? What made him fast, he must have been doing a lot correct? Tell stomps we send our best from NPWDRL!

 

[mxquad]

It's very satisfying to help someone and be a fly on the wall at the race. Under cover Brother. Great job, sounds like a tight race. Did you get a good look at the dudes cars? What made him fast, he must have been doing a lot correct? Tell stomps we send our best from NPWDRL!

Absolutely Bulldog, you know how we roll. I waited a whole year to finally knock that guy down a notch. I looked at his cars and they both were 3 wheels too and wheels lightly sanded almost to the point they were V'd because 3 wheels had a dark line in the middle.

His cars had HUGE gaps, and had -3 negative canted rears; yet went down the track without wobble. Bodies were thin and all the weight in the rear was hidden. He did use the slots, but I couldn't verify the axles and weight of wheels used. He obviously knew what he's doing to make a car go that fast, but he got out smarted this time and didn't like it and a poor example of sportsmanship.

This scenario goes out to the little guy that knocks the big guy off the porch. The morale to the story, expose what they don't have in the rules, and if caught at tech inspection have the rules in your hand and reference them.

 

[GravityX]

Neat story Todd, it's always nice to see the big dog knocked off the porch once in awhile. Well played! He'll be back next year a little stronger.

 

[Ballistic Racing]

Nothing like a good David & Goliath story, that's great stuff! I kind of feel like David going into my first series race next month...I think I'll name my car "Sling Shot!"

 

[Obsessedderbydad]

It's pretty much the rules that come out of the box. I can tell you I helped a scout yesterday and we drilled a cant'd hole above the axle slot. It still shows in the axle slot and you're still using the slot. I think they want the axle slot to be shown so you can see that you're using the stock axles and no any other axle since the boxed axles are boxed at the end.

 

[RBE17]

Those are pretty much the same as our district rules. I am not risking it with drilling above the slots as we have additional verbiage regarding it. It would be great to do so because the slots are not perpendicular to the body. I do plan on adding material to the front after removing from the back. I can defend that and do not see it as a stretch it violation of the rules.

 

[LightninBoy]

I somehow lost track of this thread. Thanks everyone for your replies.

Long story short ... this was a disaster. The resulting cars passed inspection, broke records, and were by far the fastest. Of course, they were then disqualified even though they passed inspection and we had plans in place for making modifications if they objected to certain things during inspection.

Ah well. I learned some valuable lessons. And we'll get them next year.

Oh yes, we will.

 

[Vitamin K]

I somehow lost track of this thread. Thanks everyone for your replies.

Long story short ... this was a disaster. The resulting cars passed inspection, broke records, and were by far the fastest. Of course, they were then disqualified even though they passed inspection and we had plans in place for making modifications if they objected to certain things during inspection.

Ah well. I learned some valuable lessons. And we'll get them next year.

Oh yes, we will.

That's not a disaster...that's a freaking travesty. If the cars passed inspection, they should run. At the very least, they should permit you to make changes to comply.

Did they give you any actual reasons for the disqualifications?