CONGRATS TO THE ICE SERIES CHAMPIONS!!!!

[Kinser Racing]

That's easy to say when you are already PRO to do away with the am class. I say this because the only real test for my cars is once a month on the league track. You top pros must have some awesome sauce and unicorn milk. Then when someone post about there cars are slowing down first response is buy new wheels and axels. Build a new car so you spend $100 bucks with wheel s,axels,weight ext. send it in and it's an epic failure!!! Then what,,where do you go from there? What I'm saying is I take my racing verySERIOUS!!!!!!!!! and my hats off to you pros you guys are a level above. I vote keep the AM class,,,I now the track is faster and now I'm lost as last years Easter egg on what to do to make my cars faster.... I checked my times from before the track got faster and my times are slower if you use .02 as the mark for the speed increase. Just my 2 cents!!!!!

Assuming that the wheels and axles didn't get damaged, everything you listed could be recycled into a new body, if there was a problem with the old body. The reality is that often new builders will damage wheels or axles while learning how to prep them, especially if they're working alone. It's hard to go fast on damaged wheels or over polished axles. A drill job is easilly checked, prep is an art as far as I'm concerned. So to me it seems like a valid suggestion to replace wheels or axles when someone is struggling and can't find the speed.

The only reason I would suggest going with new is because that's what I have done, it's how I figured what worked for me. I had it handed to me many times, and still get it handed to me. Check my SS placings over the last year. You don't have to be a new guy to wreck wheels, I did it just this month. When I really got serious I used a new set of wheels on every car each month. It only took about 4 months or so before I slowed down on how often I got new wheels. That's what I did and it worked, so that's what I suggest. For me a new set of wheels are almost always faster.

 

[Mojo Racing]

I know this....

When I send my cars to MA and the Fire series, I will be comparing my times to the cars at the top of the category my cars are entered in. If I am in BASX AM, I will still be comparing my times to BASX Pro...

Either, or, I am going to be gunning for the top... from the bottom, I am sure. LOL

<----- with this look on my face

 

[B_Regal Racing]

I'm sure glad I do not make the rules.

 

[Chump Change Racing]

Not saying that is a bad suggestion KINSER.. Just saying the end results because that's exactly what I did even got the oil prep on the wheels when I ordered them . Even got some really good help from a pro did everything to spec. EPIC FAILURE!! One of my slowest cars to date.. Ether way I'm not going to stop working on making my builds better.

 

[TRE]

i will tell you this..you will go through a lot of wheels trying to get the prep right to get to the top

 

[Bullet]

A clarification on the suggestion I mentioned to limit the AM to BASX is this...

If you think you are just racing against AM builders in the SS AM class, think again. You are racing against a few pro-built cars purchased by Am builders. To each their own, to find what makes them happy, I dont care, I'm just glad they are racing with us and enjoying this great hobby/passion. But I dont think anyone will be throwing down big money to buy a pro-built BASX car to race in AMs for that class. You could do it once anyway, then you are in the pros...lol. This might make it a true AM class for newer builders...like I mentioned before, new people could get discouraged more easily if they think they are racing against new or AM racers and cant understand why they are .02-.03 back.

I think SS is one of the hardest classes to get and stay fast in. For me it has the most aspects to get just right, it can be there one month and gone the next, just look at even the pro results sometimes. Point is this...its easy to get discouraged in this class at times and can be hard to start in.

I agree with BRR, I'm glad I do not have to make these decisions, I just get to have an opinion, some will not agree and maybe some will. I'm not criticizing the current structure or any racers, just thinking of ways to add and keep new racers. Also, the numbers seem to be down the last couple months, making fewer cars in each class when there are so many classes to manage. This also may limit John's time on this so he can work on other things to improve the experience.

I usually dont post anything that could possibly be controversial...Mr. Chips would be proud of me! lol

 

[BulldogRacing]

The Ice series was my first races. I had a ton of fun, I mean a TON of fun. I was so happy the first race to average 2,989, I could not believe my eyes. The next month I tried some new things and the track was faster and ran a 2.959. Holy crap! I was so freaking happy. Then last month I lost .01 I was so bummed. The first race I ran in the very first heat I ran guess who's name was on the screen next to me, Rocket, Hogans, and CHR, and yes I did come in last, by .016 but I was honored to race against them and still be in the screen shot. I do enjoy winning some heats in AM, but I do always compare my times to Pros. I gotta say I always win every heat and every class I run in when I run my car at my own track, LOL. So, I send it in the the fastest league against the fastest racers to see what I can do. Although I do like to talk with some guys in AM, and feel like we are trying to learn the struggle together. I know this is not a team sport but it would sure help the learning curve if it was! I promise to never by a pro car and run it in amateur racing. I don't care if others do, thats up to them, but as for me and my house I will build my cars. I'm truly trying to beat myself and would love to catch some wind off a pro, LOL. Love this place. Whatever John wants to do I'll still keep sending them in. Oh, should I send my cars for MA to John or to Omaha?

 

[Bullet]

BD, cars go to Omaha I believe...

Great attitude by the way! That's what it's about...having this community, talking and learning together. There's ups and downs, excitement and disappointment, racing against yourself as well as others, getting a chance to race in the finals eventually and having a shot at a win one day. I understand what you're saying about seeing your name up there with the big daddy icons in PWD...I think my second race ever was nationals last year and I saved this snapshot to remember it, what a cool experience. I liked the picture with John getting the win for the heat...as it should be, all is well in the world! lol

 

[DerbyDad4Hire]

The problem we face is the purchased cars running in AM. If we make them illegal then we have a judgement call. I want to keep the AM in BASX and DQ any purchased cars. Trust me when I say it is more fun to build your way up then to win in AM with a purchased car. I have no issue with people buying cars but I want to keep the pro cars in the pro division. That is our challenge. Look for clarification soon.

 

[Mister B Racing]

Are DD4H Plug and Play cars considered a purchased car? Everything is done for you but the builder still needs to put it together. Same thing holds true for a purchased "Pro Car" but what if it has been re-prepped by the new owner several times?

It would be nice to take the builder out of the equation and somehow let the car times determine if it races in the AM or Pro class. If a builder sends in two cars and one runs faster and one runs slower they each could run in a different class.

 

[cedron]

Just my two cents as a newbie. Having the AM classes makes it less intimidating try the league. Let's face it, there is a WIDE gap between all the commonly known knowledge and the skill and secrets you guys have build up over massive time. I feel like it gives someone a place to start.

I like the idea of both BASX and SS AM classes, because BASX is the bare minimum to get started and SS seems like a lot more sophisticated and challenging, so still a big step up from BASX.

John's point of trying to keep out the purchased cars is spot on.

 

[OPARENNEN]

The problem we face is the purchased cars running in AM. If we make them illegal then we have a judgement call. I want to keep the AM in BASX and DQ any purchased cars. Trust me when I say it is more fun to build your way up then to win in AM with a purchased car. I have no issue with people buying cars but I want to keep the pro cars in the pro division. That is our challenge. Look for clarification soon.

Easy solution. ON the first series race (or the first time a builder races in a Series), pick a time.
If he is faster than that time, immediately transfer him to Pro.
If his time is over the "bar" on his 1st race, but under on the subsequent races, then just "live with it", but he has to be PRO in subsequent series.

If this rule had been in effect for the ICE series, I would have been moved up, and I would have been OK with it. I only chose AM because of my poor performances in 2014.

 

[OPARENNEN]

Are DD4H Plug and Play cars considered a purchased car? Everything is done for you but the builder still needs to put it together. Same thing holds true for a purchased "Pro Car" but what if it has been re-prepped by the new owner several times?

It would be nice to take the builder out of the equation and somehow let the car times determine if it races in the AM or Pro class. If a builder sends in two cars and one runs faster and one runs slower they each could run in a different class.

My solution above takes care of this without long detailed complicated rules, or difficult "judgments" by John or anyone else.

And yes, the fastest car rules for a builder, no matter how slow his others are.

 

[Bullet]

Mr. B,
I think the idea is to avoid the purchased car that has been built, weighted, prepped/tuned by a pro, these cars should race in pro. I believe this is more discouraging for new builders when they think they are competing with other new builders/ams. Happened when I first started also. If you buy a block, you still have to do the rest yourself. I understand some folks buy pro cars just to see how they are built and then use them as a comparison to learn from, but not actually raced.

 

[Chump Change Racing]

Reality is people hate to lose. It's how you deal with it that makes you who you are!! I myself got caught up with trying to win so bad I'm a couple grand in and nothing to show for it.. You forget real quick if you are buying from a pro you are getting the less than par stuff. And they are just fast enough to keep you on the hook. Funny thing is the cars I have built lately are faster than the bought ones.

 

[bracketracer]

The problem we face is the purchased cars running in AM. If we make them illegal then we have a judgement call. I want to keep the AM in BASX and DQ any purchased cars. Trust me when I say it is more fun to build your way up then to win in AM with a purchased car. I have no issue with people buying cars but I want to keep the pro cars in the pro division. That is our challenge. Look for clarification soon.

Easy solution. ON the first series race (or the first time a builder races in a Series), pick a time.
If he is faster than that time, immediately transfer him to Pro.
If his time is over the "bar" on his 1st race, but under on the subsequent races, then just "live with it", but he has to be PRO in subsequent series.

If this rule had been in effect for the ICE series, I would have been moved up, and I would have been OK with it. I only chose AM because of my poor performances in 2014.

Opa, there was a rule like that in place for this series. In the first race, there was only one SS class, all cars ran together. For the second race, if you ran 2.973 or faster in the first race you went to the pros, if you went slower then you went to the Am's. Your fastest car went 2.976 in the first race so you correctly raced in the Am class for the rest of the series.

Too bad that it would be a logistical nightmare to give each car a one run "qualifying lap" before the event to sort the cars even before the first race.
I guess you could enter a full roster of names under both the AM class and Pro class and use the exclude checkbox to sort them after qualifiying?

 

[tmeyer]

I like the idea of a single qualifying run before the race to determine class by the elapsed time run in the qualifying round, but I know it would be alot of extra work and very difficult for John to determine points.

 

[bracketracer]

I like the idea of a single qualifying run before the race to determine class by the elapsed time run in the qualifying round, but I know it would be alot of extra work and very difficult for John to determine points.

Well, the points would be distributed by the final finishing order after the event concludes just like they are now so that wouldn't be any more of a pain in the rear than it is now.

There were 28 cars in BASX in the first race so that would mean 28 single runs to qualify them (since they all have to run in the same lane to keep it even). Plus the time to sort the cars in GPRM. It would add more than an hour easily to an already long day. It would give guys a chance to see how their car does on a solo shot compared to a run in traffic though.

 

[Chump Change Racing]

 

[B_Regal Racing]

The problem we face is the purchased cars running in AM.

Let'em buy their cars. I'll build mine and get faster. Most will not have the resources to keep it up for long. At some point, I want to compete with the pros anyway...